FC Bayern Forum

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:03 pm

Not a religion but it is a belief. And there are definitely atheist preachers who try to shove their belief down everyone else's throats just as much as priests etc. do.

Personally I dislike both in equal measures

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Dalv · by **Dalv** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:22 pm

You are referring to faith, not belief, or you are referring to belief without evidence if you want, which is not the case for (most) atheists.
Of course they form some sort of belief/consent, they don't lack a brain. Just like a scientist who believes (as in accepts/consents with the reality of something) when supplied with compelling evidence. This also doesn't mean devotion, since this stance can change if new evidence points otherwise as opposed to faith/*religious belief without evidence* which is an unmovable stance no matter the evidence. So yeah, quite a difference. It's the same with the lack of evidence, or unsatisfying evidence provided thus far combined with reason, Russell's teapot, atheists form a stance of highly unlikeliness towards the existence of a creator.

And yes, there are militant atheists who wanna shove it others throats, I give you that.

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:26 pm

Yeah, I didn't mean devotion or anything like that.

Agreed.

Now I'm wondering whether we have a majority of believers or non-believers here on the forum.

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PunkCapitalist · by **PunkCapitalist** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:39 pm

Ultimately, I don't care about what anyone else believes. I only care when they pretend to codify it into laws.

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ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:24 pm

@Dalv. You are so anti Catholic and all, I just have this to tell you, wait until the not so distant day when Europe will be dominated by another Religion and then you will be able to judge by yourself if the Catholic Church is anti gay etc...

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Dalv · by **Dalv** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:39 pm

That's unlikely, religious people in Europe are generally decreasing since new generations have access to free information and better education and most of them become free thinkers. Not to mention church as an institution is losing trust and support from its followers even in eastern Europe and also it has lost all its political power already. So yeah, religions in Europe are on the decline. Just compare today Europe with only a century ago, the difference is huge, churches in UK are now pubs. There's no place/point for religion in the future.

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:44 pm

Dalv wrote:That's unlikely, religious people in Europe are generally decreasing since new generations have access to free information and better education and most of them become free thinkers. Not to mention church as an institution is losing trust and support from its followers even in eastern Europe and also it has lost all its political power already. So yeah, religions in Europe are on the decline. Just compare today Europe with only a century ago, the difference is huge, churches in UK are now pubs. There's no place/point for religion in the future.

Yeah I know... that is why I wrote that...
But who do you think will fill the void created? Then the smile on all of those with a liberal mind will disappear

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Dalv · by **Dalv** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:02 pm

Well, it's not a void for me and many others. And on the contrary, it's obvious that today's change will shift into normality in the future, just like women oppression was still high when they got their voting rights a century ago, but it's now (their rights) viewed as something normal. I'm just unlucky to live in a period of such changes with stormy waters and not later.

#12 · by **#12** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:27 pm

Dalv wrote:@ramsej:
Yeah, Jesus who according to NT worshiped the gods from the Old Testament, who saw the following people in heavens and gave them as examples: Abraham who was a pimp and married his sister, Jacob Israel who killed his brother and betrayed his father, Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines etc. Jesus who according to NT threatened some cities they shall be cursed (killed) as the Sodom and Gomorrah etc.

Man sorry but you don't know your own stuff very well. And let's be serious we are adults, Jesus, if he existed, was a rebel leader against the Roman Empire with some irrational visions of his own but somewhat typical for that time because they didnt have education, who never went to work but hippied in bars and taverns all day with his gang and didn't write anything either, he didn't even know how to write.

The existence of historic figure Jesus of Nazareth is undeniable...

ramsej84 wrote:
Dalv wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:With all due respect dalv. You are sinking in BS...
The Book you mentioned promotes those things? I guess you are mixing things up my friend...
I am not judging you cause I am a sinner 100times more than you are but your post is very offensive and .....

I am waiting for an apology if God forbids somebody (hope no one does) offends another Rel he will be deemed Racist and will get banned

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What, banned, are you for real? Have you not read the Bible at all? Do you really want me to point some extremely obvious things from it in here?
Not only does it start from 2 humans, but incest appears in many many parts, even Abraham the "great father" was married to his own sister who was also having sex for money with the Pharaoh and other rich people. Abraham agreed with these practices because they needed money, therefore he was a pimp.
Murder, racism, xenophobia? God (or some of the Gods, because there's more than 1 in the Bible) orders his chosen people to murder other people/countries on their way to Canaan, the Jericho assault and the aftermath rapes of young woman and children is mentioned in quite the detail as ordered by God.
These were just a very quick call. There are countless examples in the Bible for horrible things like these, do you really want me to quote them exactly? And that is a very self explaining painting from an orthodox church. These are facts, not offending.

Man just to let you know in Catholic countries gays are not hanged in public or thrown from the tallest buildings...
Or We are not allowed to marry ten year olds...
And if you will read the New Testament... From the date Jesus was born...

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Yeah but it's not due to Christianity, but to the liberalism you detest so much...

kod2600 · by **kod2600** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:18 am

In 2007, when I was 15 I made a decision, and it was to never try to discuss this type of subjects (religious and beliefs) online. And I must say, it made my internet experience a lot happier and better. You should try it sometime. :coffee:

Jorge · by **Jorge** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:45 am

The way I see it we all believe in the same thing: religious people (regardless of the religion) call it God, atheists call it nature but it is all the same, something that exists beyond our control, it is infinite and incomprehensible. Because it existed before we humans became rational beings and it will exist after we are gone, we as a fallible specie make interpretations and such exercise is circumscribed to faith or science, then we group based on consensus and power structures will use these human groupings for the individual gain of a few, this has been done again and again by religions, or by atheists, it resulted in wars and it also created peace.

I am perplexed on how some paint all with the same brush: there are good Christians and bad Christians, good Muslims and bad Muslims, good atheists and bad atheists. Maybe if we all accept that we all believe in the same thing, as I explained in my first sentence the problem is solved: I already did.

Lahmies · by **Lahmies** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:13 am

While conservatives lose their shit over a rainbow flag and what they perceive as "gay propaganda", gay men are being tortured and killed in Chechnya :roll:

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_con ... n_Chechnya).
Humanity at its worst.

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:41 am

Dalv wrote:You are referring to faith, not belief, or you are referring to belief without evidence if you want, which is not the case for (most) atheists.
Of course they form some sort of belief/consent, they don't lack a brain. Just like a scientist who believes (as in accepts/consents with the reality of something) when supplied with compelling evidence. This also doesn't mean devotion, since this stance can change if new evidence points otherwise as opposed to faith/*religious belief without evidence* which is an unmovable stance no matter the evidence. So yeah, quite a difference. It's the same with the lack of evidence, or unsatisfying evidence provided thus far combined with reason, Russell's teapot, atheists form a stance of highly unlikeliness towards the existence of a creator.

And yes, there are militant atheists who wanna shove it others throats, I give you that.

That's not atheism, that's agnosticism. If you would believe given sufficient proof then you're agnostic. A proper atheist is someone who, no matter what hard proof he or she is shown, will remain stubborn and not believe.

Firefox1234 · by **Firefox1234** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:53 am

One day our descendants will laugh to the fact this argument was an issue, I wish I could live to see such a day

PunkCapitalist · by **PunkCapitalist** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:09 am

MUTU wrote:
Dalv wrote:You are referring to faith, not belief, or you are referring to belief without evidence if you want, which is not the case for (most) atheists.
Of course they form some sort of belief/consent, they don't lack a brain. Just like a scientist who believes (as in accepts/consents with the reality of something) when supplied with compelling evidence. This also doesn't mean devotion, since this stance can change if new evidence points otherwise as opposed to faith/*religious belief without evidence* which is an unmovable stance no matter the evidence. So yeah, quite a difference. It's the same with the lack of evidence, or unsatisfying evidence provided thus far combined with reason, Russell's teapot, atheists form a stance of highly unlikeliness towards the existence of a creator.

And yes, there are militant atheists who wanna shove it others throats, I give you that.

That's not atheism, that's agnosticism. If you would believe given sufficient proof then you're agnostic. A proper atheist is someone who, no matter what hard proof he or she is shown, will remain stubborn and not believe.

That's false. An agnostic is someone who, in the absence of confirming evidence of the existence of god (of which there is none), is inclined to not believing, but remains open to the possibility nonetheless. IE, he says "maybe, maybe not". An atheist is someone who, in the absence of evidence, chooses to reject the possibility (but it doesn't mean if there were evidence, that person would remain atheist).

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