FC Bayern Forum

Play them in basketball

DerKaiser wrote:So just a thread idea for all you tacticians out there. Just like the title says, if you were coach of the opposing team, what weaknesses do you see, how would you try to exploit them and general tactical play?

Wow this is a very good thread and to be honest i have no clue, i can barely say i know the basics of football tactics but ill see what i can come up with.

The team that beats Bayern will do so with counterattacks, I believe. Yesterday, Guangzhou's counters found openings that any team with better players would have taken advantage of. The other way to beat Bayern is hope they have an Arsenal-esque off day.

Shooting from their own half. Neuer won't be able to save it since he would be ~25 meters away from the goal line.

I think it would have to be a hybrid version of two recent German philosophies. The dortmund high-pressing philosophy but curtailed (limited) in its tendency to overextend by the Bayern gameplan that was utilized against Barcelona in the CL Semi-finals.

If you noticed, the Barca game in particular we played a counter-attacking game because we knew it was very ambitious and almost foolish to try to play a pure possession game against Barca. However at the same time our counter-attack game was not simply park the bus it was a very organized closing of space with timed hyper-pressing. This system was slightly different to Mourinho Park the Bus -> Lob -> Counter-Attacks. Or Dortmunds - consistent intense pressing with furious counter-attacks. This was a tactical hyper pressing with intelligent organization.

In order to beat this current Bayern; a team would have to use Jupps gameplan vs Barca in the semi-finals but take it one step further in the sense that they will need to add the break-ability, speed, and transitioning of Dortmund (arguably the best counter-attacking team in the world).

1. Organized two lines of defence that are tactically closing space without tiring themselves out.
2. Not constant pressing but TIMED hyper-pressing.
3. Dortmund like transitions
4. Manduzukic like striker to track back and put pressure on Kroos/Thiago/Schweinsteiger throughout the game.
5. Clinical finishing / conversion rate.

Its a very tough ask because for a system like the one mentioned above to work not only do all your players have to be tactically sound but there has to be a very high level of understanding and chemistry among them which can only be achieved by having a period that is fairly injury-free. Dortmund currently are the only playstyle that can still beat us but due to their injury problems they are unable to maybe advance their philosophy and instead of being 'gung-ho heavy metal' all the time if they were to bring in some defensive symphony with bouts of pressing in there they could be really scary.

But by that same option Pep is too smart and adjusts really quickly and he could just fuck this system up again by playing a ball winner like Javi Martinez as a CAM again also the fact that Muller as a player in the big games is unmarkable at times so no amount of tactical organization can really isolate his wacky runs. Which is why I think this gameplan to beat Bayern can be viable at best over a SINGLE GAME. Over two legs due to Pep's adaptability this Bayern is imho unbeatable.

OhioFan wrote:Play them in basketball

We are unbeatable even in basketball!

Very interesting topic.

First of all it depends on what team the opponent has available. If it is a team that with effort can realistically challenge Bayern in possession or in pressing, then I'd say they should go ahead and play their own game. I have always believe that teams abandoning their playing style and coming up with something completely new when facing Bayern and Barca is a big contributor to the two clubs' success. One needs to adapt, but there is a limit to how much one can change to be successful.

For other teams, experience has shown long balls and counter attacks to be the best way to stop Bayern. I suppose I would go with a mixture of this and time wasting.

When I think about it, I can see why Bayern loses so rarely. Very few teams can hope to challenge Bayern in terms of possession or pressing, and only Barca can do it in both. Bayern are no longer as susceptible to counters as they were 2-3 years ago. You can't simply shut down the central midfield (sort of like Dortmund-Real or Bayern-Barca) and think it's enough to nullify Bayern's threat. First of all, the new system makes it very hard to stop all creative midfielders, unless you have enough players of similar quality to match Bayern in the first place. Second, Bayern can create chances through Dante and Boateng (and some day soon, hopefully Badstuber) and also Neuer. Stopping the midfield is not enough.

Then you have the issue of wings. I don't think any team can match Bayern in that area. Sure, Real might have Ronaldo and Bale, who some consider to be superior to Robbery, but I think we are the only club with two world-class and balanced fullbacks. It is very hard for a team to nullify threats from both the left wing and the right wing at the same time.

Lastly, as Aequitas mentioned, there is the Pep factor. The treble winning team had one weakness, which was rarely exposed, and that was Heynckes' ability to adapt mid-game. Even that weakness seems to have disappeared now, and that is why Pep's signing was much, much ( ) more important than many non-Bayern fans think.

P.S. First you say Gotze is just "good", now this thread. Are you Jurgen Klopp looking for advice?

I don't think anyone can beat us at the possession game anymore not even Barca; that is the Pep factor. I mean we have Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Gotze and Lahm...don't think people can beat us at possession in the midfield.

Hard work, hardcore pressing, great transitions and fast counter-attacks with clinical finishing is the only way to beat us and the only team that come close in those criterias is Dortmund. Madrid has the counter attacks and clinical finishing but they lose out in the hard work and pressing categories. The only thing with Dortmund is that they don't have the depth to play the ultra-pressing they do without immense stress on their starting 11 hence the injuries. Which is why logically if they were more intelligent with their pressing like the Bayern vs Barca last year then they could possibly beat us at least until they get more squad depth.

Well well... as a coincidence, I just wrote a piece about it today.

I hate to say it but another review of the defeat against Manchester City has proved something: Pep Guardiola’s 4-1-4-1 formation is flexible but pressure successfully broke it. More: Tactical analysis: how Guardiola’s 4-1-4-1 was undone by Man City

Very good idea for a topic

Probably this is what most coaches in CL and BL are thinking...

I would go with Heynches approach against Barca. In any case anyone would need a lot of luck and effectiveness to archieve something like that...

Ok before i start "tearing apart all your ideas" two things i would do
Bayern is unfortunately quite small.... meaning too many short players... get some fouls at the 20 meter mark and get ur ruffians in there..but not directly cause neuer is sharp so the balls should come in at the penalty spot area
Use the attacking outside backs to counter attack.... I would always counter attack over Alaba if he was pushing forward the whole game....


ok now for the fun commentary...

ramsej84 wrote:With long balls behind the wing backs...
High pressing in their own half.
Closing down the wings and and central attacking midfielder.

I've tried this on football manager 2014 with Borr.Monchengladbach. HT score 1-2 behind, final score 1-4

Football manager 2014 2 greatest acheivements....score with Torres Sub in Tevez...

AssemFCB wrote:The team that beats Bayern will do so with counterattacks, I believe. Yesterday, Guangzhou's counters found openings that any team with better players would have taken advantage of. The other way to beat Bayern is hope they have an Arsenal-esque off day.

Too vague to be considered a tactic its like saying how im gonna eat this ice cream cone.. shall i lick the drippings on the one side or the other first