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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby gumboduncan » Sun May 19, 2019 2:09 pm

Fénix wrote:In my opinion, Bayern's financial management is the best in the world without any competition, light years better, transparent and fair unlike the one from Real Madrid over the last 20 years where they manipulated with the local authorities to erase their debts literally over the night and Uefa after 20 years hasn't finished their investigation yet that some media still from time to time like to mention this.

We have no minuses in our accounts, only pluses. That's something that has always been our trademark and has always made us different from all other European elite clubs. We thought FFP would give us power and stop these clubs from spending, taking loans and going into big losses, but they found ways and instruments how to bypass all this and make it even worse.

On the other side, our squad/transfer management isn't following the financial aspect over the last 5 years. After the 2013/2014 season, our transfer policy and decisions were everything but good and positive long-term. We have actually faced a downgrade over the last 4-5 years and started to go in a completely wrong direction and 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 have proven exactly this decline.

This must be changed as soon as possible and as quickly as possible. If we have sacrificed the season for Ribery and Robben, then let's win the Pokalfinale and turn the next empty page and start write another great story like in summer 2011 and the summer after.


I agree with everything regarding the financial aspect of your post. However I don't agree with you on the transfer policy after the 2013-14 season. I have to mention a certain Robert Lewandowski. We got him for free. That transfer has probably been the best transfer in the last 10-15 years for Bayern, at least since we signed Ribery and possibly Robben. Also we signed Hummels in 2016 when he was a clear top 5 CB in the game. His first two seasons were very good. This season he's been good. I can also name Kimmich, Gnabry and Süle. Today they're cornerstones for the German national team and Bayern, esp. Kimmich and Süle. We got all of them, esp. Kimmich and Gnabry on the cheap if we look at their development since they arrived.

Of course the board has made mistakes in the transfer market. Esp. Sanches. We can also mention re-signing Robben and Ribery for this season, but I have to say that they really deserved this season and if Bayern win the Pokal then I have to say that this season was a very good one. Certainly a new chapter is beginning at Bayern and the board has already made two very good transfers with Pavard and Lucas. This summer and the summer of 2020 will be very important for the future of Bayern with regards to who the board signs.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Pelin » Sun May 19, 2019 10:49 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
nm462272 wrote:BMW was only at 800 million, right? hey we've always loved Audi 8)


Yeah but I’m not sure whether it was over the same period of time (12 years).

200 m euros for Audi share, 600 m euros for 10 years.on the other hand, Audi offers 720 m euros plus bonuses and additional benefits for 12 years.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Pelin » Sun May 19, 2019 11:07 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
Pelin wrote:Our biggest problem is Kalle and Uli's way. They have high ego and they always think they know the best. they don't even accept criticism.Though our big sponsorship deals are outdated, Kalle said that we expect to break 700 m euros revenue barrier for this season. They are not forcing companies to renew our sponsorship deals. this is not their way. they won't sign James to sell him with a profit. this is not their way. they didn't sign a top quality winger since 3 years and showed grattiude to Ribery. they sacrificed the season for showing last gratitude to Ribery this season.

Real and Barca get 50 m euros from membership revenue.%10 of their revenue is from other branches. so, they have +110-125 m euros revenue advantage compared to us. They renewed their big sponsporship deals with big increases. They are investing on stadiums to generate more revenue.
so, Uli and Kalle better act and renew that outdated sponsorship deals. Even Arsenal gets 60 m pounds from adidas.Our DT deal is low too.
we are getting 6 m euros from AA naming rights. this is a crime. Bayern's generating revenue capability is great. however, we are using very little of this potential.l hope this changes with Kahn.


Uli and Kalle`s way was what got us to where we are...and it is funny to say they dont do well with commercial contracts when in fact we are the most succesful club in the world when it comes to commercial revenue for the last 20 years (if you dont consider PSG and Man City fake commercial financing).

We have most club members in the world and I am happy that our club doesnt charge too much for membership as we value our fans. But we still get a lot of money from our members. Fans first! that is what this club is all about. I am happy that we are not same as Barcelona and Real Madrid when it comes to that.

When it comes to Adidas deal. We get around 60 mil € / year. others get more. But what you forgot to mention is that our deal with Adidas is different. Most of the clubs signed a deal that gives most of the merchendise rights to the likes of Adidas and Nike. Dont know how exactly our deal works but it was mentioned that we own a lot of those rights and all profits from official Adidas kit and other stuff that we sell online or in our stores are ours to keep. So that is why we always have more than 100mil€ revenue in merchendising alone.

Those official numbers are just one side of the story...but there is much more behind it.
And even when there are contracts for 10 more years...we somehow agree to get a better deal over and over again.

We managed to become one of the best clubs in the world for the last 10 years...while paying every loan we had, make a surplus of some 200-300 mil cash, make a new youth academy and much more. That is something we need to be proud of. No club in the world managed to do that, while breaking records after records and winning all those trophies.

I agree that sometimes we need to be more ruthless when it comes to transfers. But we cant be mad at our board because they are kind to our players that gave everything to this club. I respect that even if sometimes I dont agree with it. But that makes us what we are.



First of all, Kalle's and Uli's way was great in the past. yet, They need to upgrade their way, since it's clear it's not working properly anymore. we didn't play even a CL final since 6 years. After all, we can't win big games since 5-6 years. This is a massive problem for us. we are still reluctant to spend big.we would be like United without Reschke signings. Bayern Campus is a nice investment, however, we must find ways to develop talents and create resale value via Campus. building the campus means nothing alone.this summer will show us how good Uli and Kalle still are. They sacrificed last season and didn't spend money last summer. we are more than capable of spending 400 m euros, we need to send to world a message about how ambitious we are about CL. we need top quality players and we need statement signings. l hope they can deliver this summer.

Secondly, Bayern has Bavaria and strong economy advantage. in addition, our sponsors are making their marketing via Bayern in big markets, especially in China.this is a cheaper way for them.this is why, BMW offered us 60 m euros from automobile sponsor. for instance, PSG gets 6 m euros from automobile sponsorship deal a year.l know our Adidas deal is different. However, Barca's deal with Nike and Juve's deal with Adidas are different too. since, they get more shares anymore. Real got the double. they have CL winning bonuses and signing on fee too. yet, our deal with Adidas is outdated now. l must say it was a great contract before teams renewed their deals with big increase, not now. l hope we won''t need Puma to come and offer 120-150 m euros to force Adidas to renew the deal.like l said, getting 6 m euros from Allianz Arena naming rights is a crime.The same goes for DT deal. PSG and Real got 70-75 m euros from their current deals.

when it comes to transfers, D.Costa signing is a good example. we didn't sign Di Maria because of the reason he was expensive, then we signed a player who was less quality than Di Maria and cheaper.D.Costa failed and we replaced him with James who is not a winger. our wing rotation is problematic since 3 years. l am not sure if Kalle and Uli can solve it this summer. they don't give me that trust. l have the feeling that we live Di Maria and D.Costa case over and over again.l hope they learn from their mistakes.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon May 20, 2019 3:02 am

Pelin wrote:First of all, Kalle's and Uli's way was great in the past. yet, They need to upgrade their way, since it's clear it's not working properly anymore. we didn't play even a CL final since 6 years. After all, we can't win big games since 5-6 years. This is a massive problem for us. we are still reluctant to spend big.we would be like United without Reschke signings. Bayern Campus is a nice investment, however, we must find ways to develop talents and create resale value via Campus. building the campus means nothing alone.this summer will show us how good Uli and Kalle still are. They sacrificed last season and didn't spend money last summer. we are more than capable of spending 400 m euros, we need to send to world a message about how ambitious we are about CL. we need top quality players and we need statement signings. l hope they can deliver this summer.


There is no such thing as perfect when it comes to transfers. There is maybe only Liverpool that was smart and lucky to get good value on their transfers. And even they are lucky to have Klopp who is good at getting the best out of his players. If it was some other coach I bet that most of his players would not be that good.
There is no top club in the world who doesnt make mistakes with buying players. Some spend 100mil for a flop. We are not that club.
If we are 100% sure that we are getting a world class player..we will splash the money. I am sure everyone at our club is of that opinion.
There is no guarantee that if you spend 500mil€ that you will win a CL. Look at Man City, PSG and many other clubs.
Real Madrid won their 4 CL titles with spending less money than every other top club.
It comes to good planning and some luck.

It is not like we are not trying to get all the young talent to our club. we get all the best german players to our academy, we buy top prospects like Kimmich, Sule, before that Kroos, Deisler, Gotze etc...sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesnt.

Man Utd made statement signings with Di Maria, Sanchez, Pogba etc...and where did that get them? Nowhere. It doesnt mean if you spend big you will win something. It just means you are gambling.

Pelin wrote:Secondly, Bayern has Bavaria and strong economy advantage. in addition, our sponsors are making their marketing via Bayern in big markets, especially in China.this is a cheaper way for them.this is why, BMW offered us 60 m euros from automobile sponsor. for instance, PSG gets 6 m euros from automobile sponsorship deal a year.l know our Adidas deal is different. However, Barca's deal with Nike and Juve's deal with Adidas are different too. since, they get more shares anymore. Real got the double. they have CL winning bonuses and signing on fee too. yet, our deal with Adidas is outdated now. l must say it was a great contract before teams renewed their deals with big increase, not now. l hope we won''t need Puma to come and offer 120-150 m euros to force Adidas to renew the deal.like l said, getting 6 m euros from Allianz Arena naming rights is a crime.The same goes for DT deal. PSG and Real got 70-75 m euros from their current deals.


Our deal with Adidas is not outdated. I just mentioned before that we have a different type of deal than others. We keep a lot of marketing/merchandising rigths. Man utd has sold all the rights to Adidas. They dont pay you 1bil € to show that little adidas sign on your kits. They buy you out so they can sell your apparel and make even more money. I cant say for sure but our kit deal could be better than that of Man Utd when you consider that we kept some of the marketing rights and we can keep the profits by selling it in our stores and online shop.

When it comes to Adidas, Allianz, Audi and Telekom...all those companys CEOs are mostly also our board members. So I am sure they are all into making our club better.

When looking at our commercial revenue and comparing it with Man Utd...we are up there with them, even though they sell more shirts, have bigger reach around the world and playing in a most viewed leagune in the world. So if that doesnt show you that we have one of the best commercial deals than I dont know what will. We just dont have to put out all the details about every commercial deal we sign.

We are really getting like 110% out of every deal. And we should be proud of it. They made it happen and noone else. If top german companies choose us for promoting their brand than it is because of Ulli, Kalle and others making us such a well known brand.

Well every year there are only a few players out there that will be an instant world class player for you...and every top club in the world is after those players. And a lot of things have to work out for us to get that kind of player. We have money but we wont give silly salaries like Man Utd, PSG or City etc...
Last year was probably the best solution not to spend big..because I wouldnt trust Kovac to spend 200-300mil. And I still dont trust him with wanting Rebic and such.
I am sure we will all be surprised after the transfer windows closes and will all be happy.I have a good feeling about us getting 1-2 top players.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Coman » Mon May 20, 2019 4:09 am

Telekom will make our club better the day they leave or double the money they give us for our jersey (twice less than Chelsea, PSG and less than Arsenal. I don't even talk about United, Madrid, Barça)
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby gumboduncan » Tue May 28, 2019 2:16 pm

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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:55 am

I've learned that Italy will soon cap taxes at 100k euros. This means that instead of paying 30m taxes for Ronaldo, Juventus will pay 100k.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:26 pm

MUTU wrote:I've learned that Italy will soon cap taxes at 100k euros. This means that instead of paying 30m taxes for Ronaldo, Juventus will pay 100k.

For those who didn't appreciate it... the implications of this will hit (the rest of) football much harder than EPL's bumper TV deal, and even more than, dare I say, the Bosman ruling.

Clubs like Juventus will suddenly reduce expenses by some €220m/yr. Bayern would need to pay more than double the gross salary than Juventus if they offer a player the same net salary.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:34 pm

Uefa ... and Fifa have to intervene if they really love football and love it.

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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:47 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Uefa ... and Fifa have to intervene if they really love football and love it.

One country cannot have advantage over others

Neither UEFA nor FIFA have any jurisdiction over the amount of taxes that needed to be paid to the governments. If anything it should come from the EU that it requires all EU countries to have the same taxation for sports persons in order to promote competitiveness, but this would be vetoed by the member states. In a nutshell, in order for Bayern to be able to compete with Italian clubs in future, the German government needs to likewise do such a big change to the taxation system, a process that took Italy over 2 years already. Such changes don't happen overnight. Can you imagine, Juventus will afford to double their players' salaries... try to imagine just how much quality they'd be able to get. Bayern will have zero chance of competing.

By the way, your friend Salvini is somewhat responsible for this.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:59 pm

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:Uefa ... and Fifa have to intervene if they really love football and love it.

One country cannot have advantage over others

Neither UEFA nor FIFA have any jurisdiction over the amount of taxes that needed to be paid to the governments. If anything it should come from the EU that it requires all EU countries to have the same taxation for sports persons in order to promote competitiveness, but this would be vetoed by the member states. In a nutshell, in order for Bayern to be able to compete with Italian clubs in future, the German government needs to likewise do such a big change to the taxation system, a process that took Italy over 2 years already. Such changes don't happen overnight. Can you imagine, Juventus will afford to double their players' salaries... try to imagine just how much quality they'd be able to get. Bayern will have zero chance of competing.

By the way, your friend Salvini is somewhat responsible for this.
He is an ac milan fan no wonder...
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby gumboduncan » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:43 pm

The most troubled economy in Europe at its best. In a few years time they'll want Germany to bail them out, just like Greece.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MaCk0y » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:20 pm

MUTU wrote:I've learned that Italy will soon cap taxes at 100k euros. This means that instead of paying 30m taxes for Ronaldo, Juventus will pay 100k.


Source? Is this income tax?
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:19 pm

MaCk0y wrote:
MUTU wrote:I've learned that Italy will soon cap taxes at 100k euros. This means that instead of paying 30m taxes for Ronaldo, Juventus will pay 100k.


Source? Is this income tax?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... K-tax.html
https://www.euitalianinternationaltax.c ... ars-later/
https://www.foxnews.com/world/ronaldos- ... so-benefit
http://www.mondaq.com/italy/x/746750/ta ... he+Tax+Law
https://www.alliottgroup.net/practice-m ... ax-debate/

Etc etc...
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Bomber_der_Nation » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:55 pm

“The way the new tax regime works is that Italian-sourced income is taxed at the regular rate of 43 percent. But any outside earnings are only subject to a flat tax of 100,000 euros or about $117,000. That is not chump change, but if you earn $47 million a year in endorsements around the world, as Ronaldo is said to do, it beats paying tens of millions in tax in Italy.“

Outside earnings, not italian salaries. Still a big deal because of picture rights etc. But it wont lead to Juventus saving 200 million Euros..


MUTU wrote:
MaCk0y wrote:
MUTU wrote:I've learned that Italy will soon cap taxes at 100k euros. This means that instead of paying 30m taxes for Ronaldo, Juventus will pay 100k.


Source? Is this income tax?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... K-tax.html
https://www.euitalianinternationaltax.c ... ars-later/
https://www.foxnews.com/world/ronaldos- ... so-benefit
http://www.mondaq.com/italy/x/746750/ta ... he+Tax+Law
https://www.alliottgroup.net/practice-m ... ax-debate/

Etc etc...
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