You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

FC Bayern Finances

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby munchen99 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:29 pm

And for all those people who complain about our lack of spending due to "Lack of desire" - the sad reality - BRING HUDDERSFIELD TO THE BUNDESLIGA FOR SOME REAL COMPETITION FOR BAYERN!!!:

Image

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9876183/bayern-juventus-huddersfield-tv-deal-premier-league/
User avatar
munchen99
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 7:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby DRvad14 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:52 pm

Bundesliga would have got a better international deal(atleast in us) had they allowed it post world cup in2014 and when bayern were consistently in finals or when Bundesliga had better players and when there were more known coaches , besides the split between in Bundesliga 1 and 2 for local revenue skews it alot .and in la liga braca and real get a huge chunk of tv revenue unlike the bayern and bvb
User avatar
DRvad14
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:40 pm
Location: NY
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 1856 times
Been thanked: 1488 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:10 pm

munchen99 wrote:And for all those people who complain about our lack of spending due to "Lack of desire" - the sad reality - BRING HUDDERSFIELD TO THE BUNDESLIGA FOR SOME REAL COMPETITION FOR BAYERN!!!:

Image

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9876183/bayern-juventus-huddersfield-tv-deal-premier-league/


Oh right, we all completely forgot that TV money is all there is... Thanks for clearing that up... The other 660m of our revenue are probably falling from the sky at Huddersfield...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 22703
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 5254 times
Gender: Male

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Paphlagonian » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:43 pm

#12 wrote:
munchen99 wrote:And for all those people who complain about our lack of spending due to "Lack of desire" - the sad reality - BRING HUDDERSFIELD TO THE BUNDESLIGA FOR SOME REAL COMPETITION FOR BAYERN!!!:

Image

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9876183/bayern-juventus-huddersfield-tv-deal-premier-league/


Oh right, we all completely forgot that TV money is all there is... Thanks for clearing that up... The other 660m of our revenue are probably falling from the sky at Huddersfield...


Not to mention Juventus earning less than Bayern yet still makes more expensive transfers lol.
User avatar
Paphlagonian
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:33 am
Location: Paphlagonia
National Flag:
Turkey
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 214 times
Gender: Male

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:52 pm

Paphlagonian wrote:
#12 wrote:
munchen99 wrote:And for all those people who complain about our lack of spending due to "Lack of desire" - the sad reality - BRING HUDDERSFIELD TO THE BUNDESLIGA FOR SOME REAL COMPETITION FOR BAYERN!!!:

Image

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/9876183/bayern-juventus-huddersfield-tv-deal-premier-league/


Oh right, we all completely forgot that TV money is all there is... Thanks for clearing that up... The other 660m of our revenue are probably falling from the sky at Huddersfield...


Not to mention Juventus earning less than Bayern yet still makes more expensive transfers lol.


Yup...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 22703
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 5254 times
Gender: Male

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby munchen99 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:58 am

All fair points above. But 70 million difference between Liverpool and Bayern is no joke. That is equivalent to the salary of 4-5 worldclass players or 1 major signing every year. This adds up year after year.

Juve is owned by the Fiat familia. Apples to oranges.
User avatar
munchen99
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 7:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

FC Bayern Finances

Postby #12 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:14 am

No... Because we are still F A R above Liverpool!
I know this is hard to get for you, so here’s an easy example:

If I make a thousand bucks a month and get a $5000 Christmas bonus, I do not make more money than you when you’re getting 2000 a month and getting less for Christmas or nothing at all - understand?
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 22703
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 5254 times
Gender: Male

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby munchen99 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:49 am

#12 wrote:No... Because we are still F A R above Liverpool!
I know this is hard to get for you, so here’s an easy example:

If I make a thousand bucks a month and get a $5000 Christmas bonus, I do not make more money than you when you’re getting 2000 a month and getting less for Christmas or nothing at all - understand?


I understand your example clearly dear teacher, however you're missing the point that our TV money compared to many other teams is significantly lower which makes a difference in how we approach spending and financing of purchases year on year. This is a steady revenue stream that you are not taking into account.

For example while Liverpool would be able to rely on a similar amount of TV money year after year by mere virtue of being in the Premier league and being in the top 6 teams, leaving them to spend 70 million on players, we would have to spend millions more on marketing to ensure we can keep up with the Manchesters, Liverpools and Huddersfields of the world.
User avatar
munchen99
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 7:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 167 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:12 am

EPL, La Liga and Serie A top clubs always got much more TV money than us. And it looks like it will continue in that fashion.

But we were always better than most clubs when it comes to commercial revenue.

In the end all that matters is total revenue. And ours is more than 100mil€ bigger than Liverpools. so that means we have 100mil€ more for transfers and wages..compared to them.

The most steady revenue is Commercial revenue..because you sign long term contracts with 10s of companies.

If it was all about the TV money..then Wolverhampton would be buying stars from Real Madrid, Bayern, Juve etc.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4989
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 797 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby DRvad14 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:56 am

sch0ll7 wrote:EPL, La Liga and Serie A top clubs always got much more TV money than us. And it looks like it will continue in that fashion.

If it was all about the TV money..then Wolverhampton would be buying stars from Real Madrid, Bayern, Juve etc.

Bundesliga tv rights is the second highest among the top 5 leagues its the distribution and international rights which skew things for top clubs in germany.
the last part might come true if bigger clubs in Germany arent able to afford to stars
User avatar
DRvad14
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:40 pm
Location: NY
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 1856 times
Been thanked: 1488 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:22 pm

DRvad14 wrote:
sch0ll7 wrote:EPL, La Liga and Serie A top clubs always got much more TV money than us. And it looks like it will continue in that fashion.

If it was all about the TV money..then Wolverhampton would be buying stars from Real Madrid, Bayern, Juve etc.

Bundesliga tv rights is the second highest among the top 5 leagues its the distribution and international rights which skew things for top clubs in germany.
the last part might come true if bigger clubs in Germany arent able to afford to stars


Domestic rights in Italy, Spain and Bundesliga are almost the same...it is true that they favour the bigger clubs when it comes to distribution...and their international tv rights are better.
But clubs in BL have commercial advantage of playing in the biggest european economy. So most of bundesliga clubs will always have higher commercial revenue than other italian, spanish and english clubs.

We are in much better position now than some 10-15 years ago when BL domestic TV deal was one of the lowest in Europe.

The only problem with german clubs other than Bayern is that they dont have continuity. Dortmund somehow got better when it comes to that and we can all see that they are much better now.

Clubs like Schalke, Hamburg, Bayer, Gladbach...couldnt stay in top 4 for more than 1-2 seasons and couldnt build on the extra revenue they got from CL. If they managed to play in the CL every year then they would be able to build on that extra revenue.

Hopefully Leipzig and Dortmund build on that and become a force in europe. We need at least 2-3 other top clubs in germany besides FC Bayern.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4989
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 235 times
Been thanked: 797 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:45 am

Kicker: FC Bayern reports new records: 750 million Euro revenue. 14.1 percent increase in revenue from 657.4 to 750.4 million Euro. Earnings before taxes amounted to EUR 75.3 million (previous year: EUR 46.2 million), after taxes to EUR 52.5 million (previous year: EUR 29.5 million). [source]
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18464
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5857 times
Been thanked: 4451 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby DRvad14 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:18 pm

RAMBLING THROUGH THE 2018-19 FINANCIAL RESULTS
FC Bayern have released the financial statements for their fiscal year ended 2019. Once again the Swiss Ramble published these results in a series of tweets
The Swiss Ramble does a great job of presenting these results in graphics that are easy to understand and then providing useful commentary that summarizes the information. We in turn take these figures and graphics and comment on the results based on what catches our eye.

OVERALL RESULTS
A cursory glance through the 2019 Profit & Loss (P&L) shows another strong year of growth from FC Bayern with a few exceptions. Turnover (revenue) increased €30.9m year over year to €660.1m. Profit before and after tax increased €29.1m and €23.0m year over year to €75.3m and €52.5m, respectively.

On the flip side, Match Day revenues decreased by €11.4m from 2018 to €92.4m, due mostly to staging less Champions League matches according to Swiss Ramble. Expenses notably increased by €83.3m to €604.3m. Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization (EBITDA) decreased during the year by 48% to €55.8m. Finally, operating profit declined by €34.1m to €(20.0)m.The primary factors for these declines were a €33.7m increase in Wages and a €53.1m increase in Other Expenses. The increase in wages is understandable and likely to continue it’s assent but it’s unclear what the driving forces were behind the increase in Other Expenses and is therefore something to keep an eye on going forward.

Impact of Player Sales
The accounting for Player Sales is always an area of contention between club and auditor. The club includes the profits from player sales in their revenue figures, where the auditors consider these to be extraordinary income.This had an increased affect on the figures this year as the €90.3m brought in is the highest in club history. If you include Player Sales, Revenues jump up to €750.4m from €660.1m.

On the other hand, if you were to exclude player sales from the P&L before tax, Bayern would drop to a €(15.0)m loss from the €75.3m profit for the year. That number is somewhat alarming on the surface, though clearly player sales factor into how the club runs it’s business.

EBITDA is also greatly affected by Player Sales. When including those profits, Bayern are near their historic highs, whereas excluding them puts them at a 10 year low for 2019.As player sales become more and more regular, it is reasonable to at least acknowledge this revenue source and it’s impact. No matter which side of the argument you fall on, both sets of data provide interesting insight into the club’s performance.

Revenue Up
Revenue’s continued their year over year increase in 2019. The graph below breaks down the sources of revenue over the last 8 years which gives insight into where that increase is sourced.As you might expect, broadcasting revenues are one the biggest factors behind these increases. At €211m in 2019, broadcasting revenues increased €34m over the prior year and €105m since 2015.

Sponsoring & Marketing provides the other significant source of increase having steadily risen for the periods shown. The €197m generated in 2019 is an increase of €8m from 2018 and €83m since 2015.Finally, the offset of Wages and Revenue is an important metric and in 2019 Bayern has for the first time crept above the 50% mark. For the year 51% of their revenue was paid out to their employees. Given the way markets have moved in the last few years, this is hardly surprising, but likely something the Board is keeping a close eye on.

DOMESTIC DOMINANCE
Bayern’s financial performance compared to their Bundesliga rivals is equally as dominating as it has been on the pitch for the last 7 seasons. Once again, the club outperformed their domestic competition by significant margins.Borussia Dortmund remain their closest competitor but were significantly out performed. While the gap in revenues actually contracted to €283m in 2019 from €312m in 2018, it still represents the 3rd highest gap in the last 10 seasons.

Two of the biggest factors in this split are the differences in sponsorship deals and broadcasting revenues. As you can see in the graph below, Bayern dominate the domestic sponsorship market, with the Adidas deal alone outperforming their next closest rivals entire sponsorship revenue by €10m.The graphic below gives a breakdown of the Bundesliga broadcasting revenue distribution for the 2017/18 season. Bayern’s unsurprisingly gained the largest payout, a position that is unlikely to change.Where the gap really widens though is the European television revenues. Over the last 5 years, Bayern have taken in an estimated €124m more than BVB, their nearest competitors.Finally, this difference in revenue between Munich and the rest of the Bundesliga has a major impact on the field as well. In the chart below, you can see that the gap between Bayern and BVB’s wages has reached a 10 year high at €131m.Interestingly though, Bayern haven’t led the pack in either gross or net spending over the last 4 seasons. RB Leipzig takes the crown as the largest net spenders while Dortmund have spent the most overall, by a significant margin.Bayern’s advantage over their domestic competition continues to rise. Unquestionably, football lives by the old adage that the rich get richer. While many lament the competitive implications of these numbers, the club deserves credit for their continued financial, and sporting, dominance.

EUROPE AND THE MONEY LEAGUE
In general, especially given their disadvantage in regards to broadcasting revenue, Bayern performed very well when compared to their European counterparts.P&L before tax ranks 5th among the top 15 Money League clubs behind four English sides that benefit greatly from their domestic broadcasting deal.

Revenues as well remained strong coming in 4th behind Real Madrid, Barcelona and Manchester United, with Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool yet to report.Revenue growth however was relatively poor to their European competition. Only Real Madrid’s €6m increase was less than Bayern’s €31m. The unfortunate truth is that there is likely very little the Board can do to change this trend, at least in the short term. As the table below shows, broadcasting revenues for the two Spanish giants and the Premier League have launched them into another dimension. Until things change, it will be difficult for Bayern to keep up the pace.Another area that Bayern are at a disadvantage when compared to their continental rivals is in their sponsorship deals. Bayern may have dominated domestically but are 9th when comparing to their European counterparts.Bayern have given their domestic partners, and in Adidas’s case partial stakeholders, a significant bargain when compared to the other big clubs in Europe. The €35m from Deutsche Telekom for shirt sponsorship is by far the lowest among the 11 clubs examined while the €60m from Adidas comes in at 8th. Both of these seem far too low given the commercial and sporting success that Bayern has enjoyed over their history. As you can see in the table below for example, their Champions League coefficent was 3rd, just behind Real Madrid and Barcelona, which suggests that based on performances they should be much higher in the sponsorship rankings.While Bayern is playing at a disadvantage in terms of sponsorship and broadcasting, they have maintained a close distance in large part due to commercial revenues. This has allowed them to keep their wages competitive, which obviously affects their on field success. As you can see below, Bayern had the 5th highest Wages of the Money League clubs.Importantly though, they managed to pay those wages at a much lower percentage of their total revenues with the exception of Real Madrid (and Tottenham whose wages were also significantly lower). So while that 3% increase to 51% is likely a thorn in the side for the board, it is well below most of their European competitors.2017/18 MONEY LEAGUE
Due to the timing of each club’s filing and the time required to compile data, some metrics are necessarily only comparable for prior periods. The following are largely from Deloitte’s Money League comparison for 2017/18.Overall, Bayern finished 4th in the Money League behind Real, Barca and Manchester United. As Swiss Ramble notes, this ranking in terms of revenue could take an adverse hit due to several clubs, including Barcelona and PSG likely surpassing the Munich club in Commercial Revenue.While Bayern finished 2nd last season, many of the clubs in Europe are catching up with or surpassing them in a category that they used to dominate. As mentioned repeatedly, broadcasting revenues are a huge problem for Bayern. Below is a breakdown of how they actually fared.This graphic puts into stark focus the challenge presented to FC Bayern in regards to domestic broadcasting revenue. Manchester United for instance brought in more from their domestic broadcasting deal than Bayern did in total. Even Premier League clubs with very little to no European revenue are neck and neck with Bayern. Of Europe’s elite, only PSG suffer a worse fate domestically bringing in just €66m.Finally, Bayern has remained very strong in terms of match day revenues coming in 5th. This is particularly impressive given their ticket pricing structure, which tends to be far lower than the rest of Europe.

CHALLENGING FUTURE
In summary, Bayern had another solid financial year in 2019. While they continued to dominate their domestic competition, the European landscape is murkier. The board will need to be creative to find a way to stay competitive given their domestic limitations.

It will be especially interesting to see how these challenges are faced given the recent shakeups at the higher level. With Uli Hoeneß retiring, Herbert Hainer will need to put his business acumen to good use. He and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge will lead this charge over the next few seasons, as well as Oliver Kahn, who will take over for Kalle in a few years.

Perhaps this is a good thing though. Perhaps new blood will institute fresh ideas that will allow Bayern to maintain their identity while also remaining competitive in Europe. There’s little doubt however that there are many challenges awaiting the Board in the near future. Whether they have the solutions to these issues, remains to be seen.

User avatar
DRvad14
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:40 pm
Location: NY
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 1856 times
Been thanked: 1488 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby #12 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:11 pm

So we are nowhere near top 5 financially, as many here claim... Plus wasting money on overrated Brazilians...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 22703
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1145 times
Been thanked: 5254 times
Gender: Male

Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Firefox1234 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:49 pm

#12 wrote:So we are nowhere near top 5 financially, as many here claim... Plus wasting money on overrated Brazilians...

So when it says “revenues coming in 4th behind R.Madrid, Barca, and Man U” what does that mean exactly, or are you just being obtuse?
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18464
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5857 times
Been thanked: 4451 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

PreviousNext

Return to General Bayern Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests