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Bayern vs Barcelona?

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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:56 pm

Its weird that Barcelona and Bayern Munich are yet to play each other recently. Hopefully Bayern will get the chance to play them and beat them so this "who is the best" talk can be silenced.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby MoFattal » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:03 pm

That's exactly what I would love to see. Let them play their game, and let us play ours. The winner will actually be the better side in this case.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby AvatarX » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:23 pm

MoFattal wrote:
quaazi wrote:The thing is we've spent 1,5 years instilling a possession based tactical system and 3,5 years on a whole philosophy. We're starting to get to the point Barca was at in 2008-9. There is no reason to turn back now. We can either try to reap the fruits of years of hard work or start dicking about with an entirely new system that has no guarantee of success either.


Amen to that.

Our game is possession-based, and statistically we are there right after Barca in terms of ball possession and pass completion ratio. But one has to keep in mind the quality of the opposition faced. This "no one can dispossess Barca" talk can only be considered a fact after we play them and fail in doing so. Before this happens, I'll dare to say that we actually CAN dispossess them and get our game going. They have the tiki-taka possession, and we have the build-up possession. They play 4-3-3 and we play 4-2-3-1. I don't see them tiki-takaing our 4-2 defensive line. They'll have a crowded area of top-class quality to work through. Our system is perfectly shaped to dispossess their asses.


Agree. Afterall not many (including me) expected to dominate Real M. the way we did last year....
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby AssemFCB » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Madrid is different because 1: their midfield is below ours and 2: they don't emphasize on a possession based game, but prefer to counter attack.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby tflags » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:13 am

AssemFCB wrote:Madrid is different because 1: their midfield is below ours and 2: they don't emphasize on a possession based game, but prefer to counter attack.


Or they learned the hard way that trying to out-posses the 'unoutpossesable' leads to a 0 - 5 against... The tactics used after that first devastating encounter indeed point to a more counter attacking football.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby quaazi » Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:43 am

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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby RAJBAYERN » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:02 am

In conclusion, bayern must have two game plans, first try to prevail your game, in case they can´t, take the second plan, counterattack with our wingers Robbery and Gomez.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby quaazi » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:09 am

tflags wrote:Yes it was.


That link didn't help your case at all. Same stuff - Madrid planning to park the bus, concedes early, goes for broke and gets destroyed without seeing the ball even. This is not "trying to outpossess Barcelona".
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby tflags » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:07 pm

quaazi wrote:Madrid planning to park the bus, concedes early, goes for broke and gets destroyed without seeing the ball even. This is not "trying to outpossess Barcelona".


You are kidding, right? Listen, I am spending most of the time on the forum answering to these posts but seriously, we need to start agreeing on something. Ok, here we go again:

'Planing to park the bus'? Seriously?

Given how well this approach is working, you’d imagine the Portuguese coach might be wary of changing it, though The Special One may still carry heavy memories from his first Clasico. A year ago, Madrid carried an unbeaten record and a confident mood to Camp Nou for last season’s first derby. They tried to attack Barcelona and were humiliated, losing 5-0.


Before the first of 1,000 Barza clashes that season: Madrid is riding high on the season, best start of any Madrid manager on record, works beautiful with "all types of goals.." and "... a very varied game" Goes into the game, riding high on condifence.

Clash at the Camp Nou: Mourinho sees his biggest threat as a full back (Alvez in this case) running from the dephs of defense on a attacking midfield dead lock between Madrid's center backs and Barza's short passing AMs. So his tactis as explained by your quoted article is to switch Ronaldo with Di Maria on the flanks. Di Maria beign better at defending than Ronaldo.

There is a deeper story to this than a simple article you quoted. And this is why it is so hard to write these posts with a single 'here is your link, you are wrong.' Di Maria has/had one of the best assists records on his team. Problem is, he has one of the LOWEST SUCCESSFUL PASSING RATES on his team as well. Around 70% depending on the season. Madrid fans argue something similar to what we do with Robben: Who the hell cares, in Di Maria's case, if he can't make the simple passes if he delivers the crosses, the hard to make passes? In Robben's case, who cares if the nees to be facing the goal line to left foot a short pass, as long as he has those spectacular AM short runs bordering the box followed by a left footed shot of death? (Those now RIPed unfortunately.) Some more thoughts on this here.

One word of caution though, Di Maria left foot might produce crosses, but too many air shows (that is why I have no links to this) have shown Di Maria needs too much space to produce them crosses from the right.

So, Mou finds himself with a running full back issue (Alvez) and a less than spectacular defending winger (Ronaldo.) He is running high on pressing/possesion on the season but his winger is destroying that stat. What does he do? He switches Ronaldo over, Drops Di Maria to the left, builds on Oezil to Ronaldo to Benzema to build his attack. The result will take another post to describe but let us just say 5-0 is conclusive.

Sorry man, I hardly call this let us plan to park that bus.

What happens next? This might help describe it:

A chastened Mourinho changed tack for the season's four later meetings, opting for a more attritional approach which notoriously featured Portuguese center-half Pepe in a midfield destroyer role.


Did it work? Hell yeah, sort of. Next encounters saw a 1-1 and finally a 1-0 win over Copa del Rey final that had a, LOL, Di Maria cross from the deep LEFT and a Ronaldo very nice headed goal.

You say Mourinho planned to park the bus and not over posses the ball against Barza. And yet the very same site you quoted writes, in the next Madrid vs Barca preview:

Jose Mourinho’s desire to establish Real as more of an attacking force this season is clear, but for this match, he might change,


Hence, you saying that they planned to park the bus is, well, hardly supported.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby quaazi » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:57 pm

Hey, all I remember from that game is Real sitting back for the first 10, conceding a goal and then being forced to attack against Barcelona. "parking the bus" might have been hyperbole (well, it was for sure), but Mourinho definitely had a gameplan where he first wanted to ensure he doesn't concede early, then build on that. Everything after that is improvisation and certainly not fitting or being analogous to the narrative I had going about us spending years on a possession based system. Whether or not Mourinho had a sensible attacking plan is a moot point altogether.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby tflags » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:32 pm

Well, I'll go on record here as to say that I will be hard pressed to find a REAL MADRID VS BARCELONA game where Real didn't try scoring first. So, about Mourinho fearing to concede first, that might be totally the opposite of what really happened: Madrid tried to beat Barza at their own game; pressing hard, steal the ball, keep higher possession. They failed miserably, conceded early WHILE doing so, got forced (as the first article I quoted) to go back and retreat after being 3-0 down already, and just let the clock hit 90".

Listen, quazzi, they way you correct certain post is almost as conclusive and definitive at it can get. And yet some of us have to go and waste a lot of time to come up with links and quotes to support our original statement.

Would you mind giving the rest of the posters here the benefit of the doubt? I mean, I don't mind the discussions, but I am spending a lot of time looking for info two years back just to suggest whatever I wrote ain't total BS. I might be a lot easier if you just understood certain articles, like the one you used to say I was dead wrong, differently. I mean, nowhere I the article you posted did it say Madrid planned to park the bus.

And yet you said my suggestion was dead wrong based on it. So I had to spend close to an hour going back two years. Sometimes I enjoy this; this was not the case.

In light of this I'll just say this, I fear every time you challenge somebody's opinion, that challenge will get to a 'I don't care who has jurisdiction' discussion and you will end up with a 'all I remember from the game is...'

So, in the future, just for my vacation's sake ( :P ), would you mind giving some of us the benefit of the doubt? Cheers.

EDIT: A lot of misspelled words and terrible grammar.
Last edited by tflags on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby quaazi » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:53 pm

If you want me to take back the phrase "park the bus", sure. It was hyperbole and not entirely correct, and said more confrontationally than I intended. That seems to be what blew your stack here. But the burden of proof is entirely on you with that outlandish claim regarding possession (and one I took an interest in because it directly contradicted my opinion about how we should approach this theoretical game), and so far, yes, you have been spending a lot of time on total BS. The thing is you didn't even need to do that. You spent 2-3 paragraphs talking about Di Maria and how playing him on the left was about how he can cross the ball from there instead of passing, yet that in no way means that Mourinho set up a possession based tactical system. So far, you haven't brought up any "links and quotes to support our original statement.", if one looks at that whole "support" bit in that sentence. Maybe if you switched it with "mildly relevant", you'd be correct.

Your first article did absolutely nothing to prove that claim. "Madrid had little of the ball but when they did recover possession they broke rapidly and with murderous intent", it said. How is that "outpossessing the unoutpossessable"? The articles you linked me to are either irrelevant (about Di Maria) or equally objective and flippant assertions ("They tried to attack Barcelona and were humiliated, losing 5-0", the grand total of the tactical analysis of that 5-0 game in that fox article, and even then irrelevant to your initial claim). I'm not sure if there's some kind of hidden meaning in them (maybe I should read the first letter of each line or something) or you simply couldn't come up with any source that actually backed up your claim! The first paragraph of the fox article spells out "rsrbpc", so I don't think it was the former.
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby Fénix » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:05 pm

Bayern vs Barcelona?

It's so simple, we win! Case closed. :wink:
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Re: Bayern vs Barcelona?

Postby MoFattal » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:28 pm

I have a feeling that the next Tflag's photoshoped image would be quaazi-related :P
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