FC Bayern Forum

Fénix wrote:Martinez' got this season really made himself after dream 2012/2013 season where he was an integral part of our total dominance along with Dante as chief of defence where Bayern conceded under 40 goals in all competitons.

Unless I'm making a mistake last season we conceded 33 goals in 4 competitions. So far this season, we have conceded 33 goals in the same 4 competitions (it is 34 in total if we add the UEFA Super Cup and CWC), with 6-7 games left in all competitions. Unless we are humiliated in 1+ games, it won't be that worse. We have to admit that conceding 33 goals in 4 competitions is a feat almost impossible to repeat.

We actually have a better record in the CL this season, having conceded 8 goals compared to the 10 at the same stage last season. In the Pokal we have a brilliant record in both seasons (2 goals this year, 1 goal last year prior to the final, where we conceded 2 more). In the Bundesliga we have conceded 20 goals with 3 games left, while last season we conceded 18 in total after 34 games. 7 of those 20 goals have come since we won the league, more than a third.

These 4 games we've played since winning the league, and the 4-2 loss vs Dortmund in Guardiola's first competitive game, make our defence seem much worse than last season, but I think in reality we're not too far off.

runaway wrote:The thing I've noticed is, a lot of Bayern fans already have some sort of clouded mythology about last year as if it was our perfect season and it's the best as it ever going to get. Don Jupp didn't get the Treble in one night.

I hope that we will have equally successful if not more successful seasons. I dream of seeing us lifting the treble once again and, who knows, it may happen in a month's time. Perhaps one day we will win 6 trophies in a year.

But still 2012/13 will remain the special season in almost every Bayern fan's heart who witnessed it. The thing is that you have to look at 2012/3 in relation with the previous years and in particular the heartbreaking treble of second places the previous year. It was the perfect story of hitting the bottom and climbing back up to the top. Even the fact that the CL winner had to be scored by Robben, and that it had to be against none other than Borussia Dortmund, meant a lot.

Then there is the way we did it all. A number of teams have won the treble, but no other team has done it in a more convincing manner than Bayern did last season, and I'm not sure anyone ever will. We won the league in the first week of April. We had one of the hardest CL knockout rounds ever but we still managed not to concede a single goal in the QFs and SFs. We closed each tie after the first game. We conceded just 33 goals in all competitions and we broke countless records. We beat the best team in the world and touted by many as the best in history 7-0 on aggregate. And no one was expecting us to do it. I don't think you'll find many people apart from Bayern fans who'd have told you that Bayern will win the CL, and I don't think you'd have found many Bayern fans who said so before the season started either. Speaking for myself, I was expecting domestic success but a very early exit in the CL due to the mental devastation as a result of the previous season. But we took everyone by surprise and quickly became considered the best in the world.

That's what makes the season special. It is possible that we will have more successful seasons, and I do hope we do, but I still think that 2012/3 will never be eclipsed, unless perhaps we lift a CL trophy in Stamford Bridge in a final against Chelsea. It's just one of those special moments. I could say the same for this season. There's a decent chance we'll see Bayern playing better than we are doing right now in the future. Heck, you may convincingly argue we've already been better in the past, especially last season. But although it may not be our best season performance-wise it will still be etched into our memories because of us winning the title in March. I am almost sure that we will never witness Bayern repeat such a feat in our lifetime.

So yes, hopefully last season won't be the best it will ever get, but I am sure that it will remain a sort of "mythology".

runaway wrote:Yeah I agree that last season has a very, very, very special meaning but I don't agree to what most people think that we're not going to surpass/equal that achievement/season. This Bayern team is relatively young, our manager is one of the best, and we are a well-run club. The cards are laid on the table, and it's up to us how we're going to play it. In all honesty, we're not yet at the level of fame of RM and Barca. Our Treble was not of a story of a King claiming its throne but of David slaying Goliath. My Ultimate dream is to see a Golden Era like that of Beckenbauer, Muller, etc in my lifetime.

Here's to our dream of Der Zehnte! (is that the German for La Decima, The Tenth? just used google translate )

I think that not equalling last season is very unlikely, and I'd say it'll happen within the next 10 years. We have everything it takes set up an era now. Even if we don't, trebles have become more common in the last 8 years or so. I find it hard to believe that we will never, ever, win everything in a season again.

runaway wrote:Yeah I agree that last season has a very, very, very special meaning but I don't agree to what most people think that we're not going to surpass/equal that achievement/season. This Bayern team is relatively young, our manager is one of the best, and we are a well-run club. The cards are laid on the table, and it's up to us how we're going to play it. In all honesty, we're not yet at the level of fame of RM and Barca. Our Treble was not of a story of a King claiming its throne but of David slaying Goliath. My Ultimate dream is to see a Golden Era like that of Beckenbauer, Muller, etc in my lifetime.

Here's to our dream of Der Zehnte! (is that the German for La Decima, The Tenth? just used google translate )

Zehnten

Best one so far in my opinion. Auf geht's Bayern!

FCBayernMunchen wrote:

Fénix wrote:Martinez' got this season really made himself after dream 2012/2013 season where he was an integral part of our total dominance along with Dante as chief of defence where Bayern conceded under 40 goals in all competitons.

Unless I'm making a mistake last season we conceded 33 goals in 4 competitions. So far this season, we have conceded 33 goals in the same 4 competitions (it is 34 in total if we add the UEFA Super Cup and CWC), with 6-7 games left in all competitions. Unless we are humiliated in 1+ games, it won't be that worse. We have to admit that conceding 33 goals in 4 competitions is a feat almost impossible to repeat.

We actually have a better record in the CL this season, having conceded 8 goals compared to the 10 at the same stage last season. In the Pokal we have a brilliant record in both seasons (2 goals this year, 1 goal last year prior to the final, where we conceded 2 more). In the Bundesliga we have conceded 20 goals with 3 games left, while last season we conceded 18 in total after 34 games. 7 of those 20 goals have come since we won the league, more than a third.

These 4 games we've played since winning the league, and the 4-2 loss vs Dortmund in Guardiola's first competitive game, make our defence seem much worse than last season, but I think in reality we're not too far off.

Yeah, I agree with you in all facts you mentioned. I have also counted conceded goals to compare last season with the current one.

But performances, most of all, the confidence of this season defensive line(especially CBs) aren't on the same level as they were in the previous season.

Stats can also lie about the true picture of team's performances, though. Lahm is no longer a part of the last line, almost every single Bundesliga game he played on CDM and Martinez has been mostly warming the bench or playing as CB.

There are major differences. Last line is being staying far from its goal, too. Those are the things that make our defense quite different unlike Jupp's team. 2 central defensive midfielders, one of them Martinez or Gustavo, Lahm on RB...

However, we would concede even less this season that we haven't started to perform bad right after March 25th 2014 and the match vs. Hertha.

We give our opponents silly chances for very cheap goals, we did it under Jupp, we've been doing the same under Guardiola.

I agree that our defence is playing very differently and has probably become more vulnerable. What I wanted to point out is that the common idea that our defence is terrible is a myth. We've heard it a lot especially this past week. Our defence needs different players if they're going to play so high up, but even with the current players it is still one of the best.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I agree that our defence is playing very differently and has probably become more vulnerable. What I wanted to point out is that the common idea that our defence is terrible is a myth. We've heard it a lot especially this past week. Our defence needs different players if they're going to play so high up, but even with the current players it is still one of the best.

Yeah, some people have already started to push Luiz in Bayern shirt because both Dante and Boateng suck. Well, I'm not surprised, not a little bit...

Even if we could have a chance to have Maldini-Nesta-Stam-Cafu from their best football years all together, Bayern would still have problems with defense standing too far from own goal.
It's impossible on the wide area to anticipate and cover all space during the counter attacks. Nobody can't!

I haven't met those defenders yet who are 2 times faster than opponent's wingers, strikers, midfielders and who can overrun every single time and clean the situation.

DerKaiser wrote:This is a well written article, tell me what you guys think
http://bundesligafanatic.com/in-defense-of-pep-guardiola-and-bayern-munichs-tiki-taka/

Anyone who has watched more than just the games vs Real Madrid and Man United knows this to be 100% true. Many of us have been saying the same things.

Fénix wrote:

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I agree that our defence is playing very differently and has probably become more vulnerable. What I wanted to point out is that the common idea that our defence is terrible is a myth. We've heard it a lot especially this past week. Our defence needs different players if they're going to play so high up, but even with the current players it is still one of the best.

Yeah, some people have already started to push Luiz in Bayern shirt because both Dante and Boateng suck. Well, I'm not surprised, not a little bit...

Even if we could have a chance to have Maldini-Nesta-Stam-Cafu from their best football years all together, Bayern would still have problems with defense standing too far from own goal.
It's impossible on the wide area to anticipate and cover all space during the counter attacks. Nobody can't!

I haven't met those defenders yet who are 2 times faster than opponent's wingers, strikers, midfielders and who can overrun every single time and clean the situation.

Perhaps it will change with Martinez back in midfield. A big problem has been that we are often caught with just 2 at the back (or 2 CBs + a fullback). Martinez used to drop back and help them when he played in midfield. It also makes it harder for the opponents to make it past the midfield and reach the defence itself. And of course Lahm back at RB makes it harder for them to start counterattacks on that side.