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Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.

Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby Ottomeister87 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:47 pm

This is an actual mail from Bayern to their members i received today, were they admitted they made mistakes about the JHV:


Liebe Mitglieder des FC Bayern München!

Nach der Jahreshauptversammlung vergangene Woche wollen, können und sollten wir nicht einfach zur Tagesordnung übergehen. Deshalb wenden wir uns in diesem Schreiben an Euch, unsere Mitglieder.

Ohne Frage ist diese Jahreshauptversammlung leider nicht so abgelaufen, wie wir es von unserem FC Bayern gewohnt sind. Wir wollten die Veranstaltung trotz der schwierigen pandemischen Lage unbedingt ausrichten, nachdem sie schon im vergangenen Jahr coronabedingt ausgefallen war. Dabei war uns allen bewusst, dass sich beim Thema Katar einiges aufgestaut hatte. Wir bitten allerdings nochmals um Verständnis, dass wir an diesem Abend nicht über einen Antrag abstimmen konnten, der am Vormittag vom Landgericht aus juristischen Gründen als unzulässig erklärt worden ist – wir versichern Euch aber gleichzeitig, dass wir den Diskurs mit unseren Mitgliedern intensivieren werden.

Beim Thema Katar wollen wir miteinander einen Weg finden.
Ganz so, wie es sich für den FC Bayern gehört.

Bereits am Tag nach der Jahreshauptversammlung haben wir erste Schritte in diese Richtung umgesetzt. Wir haben Kontakt mit denen aufgenommen, deren Wortmeldungen nicht mehr berücksichtigt wurden, erste Treffen fanden seitdem bereits statt, und weitere wurden für die nächste Zeit vereinbart. Zudem arbeiten wir die Jahreshauptversammlung intensiv auf und haben erste konkrete Entscheidungen zur Verbesserung des Dialogs mit unseren Mitgliedern getroffen. Hierzu halten wir Euch selbstverständlich auf dem Laufenden.

Bei all den Turbulenzen – und wir haben bei diesem Thema sicher nicht alles richtig gemacht –, steht unser Club trotz allem auch in dieser Pandemie insgesamt vorbildlich da: sportlich, wirtschaftlich wie gesellschaftlich. Darauf können wir, könnt Ihr alle, sehr stolz sein. Unser Verein ist aus jeder Kontroverse und nach jedem Rückschlag stets nur noch stärker hervorgegangen, denn wir haben immer im Miteinander unseren eigenen Weg gefunden. Wir sind uns sicher, dass das wieder so sein wird. Dank Euch! Mit unseren über 290.000 Mitgliedern sind wir der größte Sportverein der Welt. Und das ist, im wahrsten Wortsinn: eine sehr, sehr starke Basis.

Wir alle haben letztlich ein gemeinsames Ziel: Wir wollen, dass unser Club der sportlich erfolgreichste Fußballverein der Welt ist – und gleichzeitig unabhängig bleibt. Dafür müssen wir auch global denken: Damit wir das Fundament für den Fußball, den wir uns alle wünschen, für die Zukunft sichern. Dazu gehört genauso, dass wir unsere FC Bayern-Identität, unsere Werte und unsere Haltung hinaus in die Welt tragen. Das war und ist unser Anspruch.

Viele von Euch haben sich in den vergangenen Tagen persönlich bei uns gemeldet. Natürlich gab es kritische Stimmen, aber auch viele positive, und generell möchten wir uns bei allen ausdrücklich bedanken, die sich die Mühe gemacht haben, uns zu schreiben. Der Zuspruch zeigt uns den unverbrüchlichen Rückhalt der FC Bayern-Mitglieder. Robuste Diskussionen gehören eben auch zu unserem Verein, das wisst Ihr alle. Wir erwarten voneinander das Beste. Auch deshalb ist unser FC Bayern seit so vielen Jahrzehnten erfolgreich.

Wir wünschen Euch und Euren Lieben nun zunächst einmal eine schöne Adventszeit sowie mit Blick auf Weihnachten Ruhe und Besinnlichkeit. Passt auf Euch auf, bleibt gesund – und weiterhin viel Freude an Eurem FC Bayern!

Rot-weiße Grüße
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby MUTU » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:50 pm

That's my point, FC Bayern AG is a different entity to the club. Mere voting rights in a club doesn't give one the power to influence decisions made by a different entity registered as a company. So it shouldn't matter if it's FC Bayern AG, Uli's company, Microsoft, Google etc. The fans' gripe, which I agree with by the way (so no need to accuse me of being in favour of treating humans like shit or whatever), was a misplaced abuse of power. They had an issue with a decision by FC Bayern AG and so they should have made a petition and presented it to the AG. A vote (show of power) in the club's AGM, which is not the entity that signed the contract with Qatar Airways was not within the scope of the club's AGM which should be restricted to things that concern the entity that is the club.

If they had a problem with what Hainer and his colleagues did with the AG, they need to remember that they have zero authority over the AG, and they cannot vote Hainer out of the AG, just like they cannot vote Uli out who's still a board member in the AG. A vote has implications. While not legally binding, it democratically forces one's hand. Given it was out of scope of the AGM, it was well within Bayern's rights to reject the vote. Maybe they should have communicated that better, and asked the fans to use different channels to address the concern.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:54 pm

MUTU wrote:That's my point, FC Bayern AG is a different entity to the club. Mere voting rights in a club doesn't give one the power to influence decisions made by a different entity registered as a company. So it shouldn't matter if it's FC Bayern AG, Uli's company, Microsoft, Google etc. The fans' gripe, which I agree with by the way (so no need to accuse me of being in favour of treating humans like shit or whatever), was a misplaced abuse of power. They had an issue with a decision by FC Bayern AG and so they should have made a petition and presented it to the AG. A vote (show of power) in the club's AGM, which is not the entity that signed the contract with Qatar Airways was not within the scope of the club's AGM which should be restricted to things that concern the entity that is the club.

If they had a problem with what Hainer and his colleagues did with the AG, they need to remember that they have zero authority over the AG, and they cannot vote Hainer out of the AG, just like they cannot vote Uli out who's still a board member in the AG. A vote has implications. While not legally binding, it democratically forces one's hand. Given it was out of scope of the AGM, it was well within Bayern's rights to reject the vote. Maybe they should have communicated that better, and asked the fans to use different channels to address the concern.
You're being ridiculous by treating a legal fiction as if one entity could be independent of the other. Legally it can, of course, but that separation is only that... Legal. Their request, btw, was for the club to exert all means of pressure to end the contract.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby MUTU » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:21 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
MUTU wrote:That's my point, FC Bayern AG is a different entity to the club. Mere voting rights in a club doesn't give one the power to influence decisions made by a different entity registered as a company. So it shouldn't matter if it's FC Bayern AG, Uli's company, Microsoft, Google etc. The fans' gripe, which I agree with by the way (so no need to accuse me of being in favour of treating humans like shit or whatever), was a misplaced abuse of power. They had an issue with a decision by FC Bayern AG and so they should have made a petition and presented it to the AG. A vote (show of power) in the club's AGM, which is not the entity that signed the contract with Qatar Airways was not within the scope of the club's AGM which should be restricted to things that concern the entity that is the club.

If they had a problem with what Hainer and his colleagues did with the AG, they need to remember that they have zero authority over the AG, and they cannot vote Hainer out of the AG, just like they cannot vote Uli out who's still a board member in the AG. A vote has implications. While not legally binding, it democratically forces one's hand. Given it was out of scope of the AGM, it was well within Bayern's rights to reject the vote. Maybe they should have communicated that better, and asked the fans to use different channels to address the concern.
You're being ridiculous by treating a legal fiction as if one entity could be independent of the other. Legally it can, of course, but that separation is only that... Legal. Their request, btw, was for the club to exert all means of pressure to end the contract.

It's not fiction. They ARE separate entities. While the president of the club is democratically(ish) elected by the club members, the supervisory board members of the AG aren't. Even if the club members manage to elect a new club president, they still can't force Hainer out of the AG, just like the fans have no power over kicking Uli Hoeness out of the AG, for example. Whatever power the club members have with their vote is restricted to the scope of the club. The club as an entity, even if it were to agree with a request, cannot force the AG to satisfy it. If the fans take it to court, it's a slam dunk for Bayern's lawyers.

The fans addressed their concerns in the wrong place. They should have written a petition, got it signed and addressed it to the AG. Instead, they abused the system because they knew a vote in the AGM makes more 'sound', and they purposely and abusively resorted to such. That's not OK in my books, irrespective of how right or wrong the request may be. At the end of the day, they put Hainer in an uncomfortable position. Could Bayern have handled it better? Sure. But the first mistake done is by the fans.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby #12 » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:46 pm

Bogus… President is in the AG for exactly one reason: to represent the will of the club i.e. his voters…
You just don’t seem to understand that…
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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