FC Bayern Forum

haha, like there can be an oktoberfest without a visit by the boys from the Allianz Arena

http://www.fcbayern.de/de/news/news/201 ... rhilfe.php

FC Bayern to help refugees: training camps, German classes, meals, and more

This is why I take even more pride in being a Bayern fan - social awareness...

Especially with the heated atmosphere right now in Germany (we of all people should know better... ) I think it's important that clubs are aware of their influence and responsibility and act accordingly!
Our club is also No. 1 in that aspect!

Bayern Munich <3

Well, because we've seen were hate, resentments and discrimination end up...

Why does that make you sick?

From an outsider point of view, it is weird to see how concentrated you are on projecting a tolerant image and how concentrated you are not to rub national pride on others' faces.

We as a country were discriminated, massacred, etc by two other countries we have the honour to be neighbors with and they have never apologized or anything, or even acknowledge what has really happened, not to mention they're still racist towards us (not that we particularly love them).

15 years ago during the war more than a million Albanians from Kosovo were forced out of their homes and "escorted" to the Albanian border and the general Serb attitude about this is still bad and arrogant, bordering on "hey guys that can happen again" hints from their top politicians

ramsej84 wrote:because you as Germans suffered too... I guess that they won't teach you this in your classrooms. I am sorry to say it but you Germans were brainwashed twice. First by the Reich and later by the new Politicians the other way of course. From one extreme to the other...
Do you know how many women suffered in Berlin? or Dresden ?
And why do still have to feel guilty for something which you did not do... ?
And then why you? Why the Spanish / Portuguese don't feel the same for what they did in Latin America (the conquistadores) ? Or the British in S.Africa, India, Australia... the French... Turkey vs the Armenians...The Americans for the atom bombs. I've never heard them say that they were sorry or that they feel guilty for something.

In the US, many people still instantly think of "nazis" when Germany is mentioned. I've talked about this a lot with my wife actually, and this frustrates her so much. That is why, though, she and many others are proud of their progressive culture... they want to show the world (and themselves) that they are a better and different country during the Nazi times.

With the whole refugee thing, we can be very proud of German politicians, celebrities, and culture for standing up to the world and it's right-wing citizens. They say "we are determined to make this a safe place for refugees"... that kind of openness, especially from politicians, wouldn't happen here.

I'm with ramsej there is a difference between refugees of a wartorn country with no place to stay through no fault of their own, and economic migrants. As far as the US goes, there needs to be a consistent policy. The problem is we seem to have a process that is entirely ignored and we are spending money on this system for no reason. It bothers a lot of legal immigrants how long the process takes, when for others it appears so easy. It took my family much longer than necessary because the system is so broken.

As for openness of the US, I think you need to take a look at actual statistics. We are plenty welcoming of refugees and we've been doing it for a long time. That's something that's bipartisan if you don't conflate two separate issues. There is a lot this country does that we don't need to publicize, because we aren't battling "right-wing" extremists. I don't know how all these ex-communists become "right-wing" so easily, but that's just me.

ramsej84 wrote:because you as Germans suffered too... I guess that they won't teach you this in your classrooms. I am sorry to say it but you Germans were brainwashed twice. First by the Reich and later by the new Politicians the other way of course. From one extreme to the other...
Do you know how many women suffered in Berlin? or Dresden ?
And why do still have to feel guilty for something which you did not do... ?
And then why you? Why the Spanish / Portuguese don't feel the same for what they did in Latin America (the conquistadores) ? Or the British in S.Africa, India, Australia... the French... Turkey vs the Armenians...The Americans for the atom bombs. I've never heard them say that they were sorry or that they feel guilty for something.

Okay... First of all: as a history teacher, I AM the one teaching this in our classrooms...
I know all that... However, as for Dresden, if you inflict a horrible, murderous war on half the world, feel better than them and act out this kind of arrogance - you kinda had it coming to you... Of course Dresden was more or less of no strategic value and Allied vengeance and retaliation... But if soldiers have to face children and elderlies because they are THIS fanatic they actually had a legit reason to inflict intimidation...
And IMHO, there's a difference between persecution and/or displacement (which are horrible!) and (intended) industrial extinction! That is unorecedented and let's all hope it will never ever happen again!
So far on that aspect... Now: I don't feel guilty and I never will! I am proud of my country and I don't feel shame or anything of the likes of it as well! I DO feel that national pride is something that you carry inside of you and don't neccessarily have to show off, but this is just me, I have no problem with people acting it out (Americans tend to do that, I hear... )
I have seen quite a bit of the world (I spent a lot of time in the US and intend to repeat that every now and then ) - and I intend to see even more: so far, I have never been offended, harmed, insulted on the one hand, and I have never felt ashamed, scared or unwanted because I'm German...
And I keep telling my students when we talk about this, that they, too, shouldn't be... That they shouldn't feel low, that they don't need to apologize! But what I do also tell them, is that history is something to learn from... And that we can actually show we're better than our ancestors, if we do so... And this means to be aware not of guilt or shame, but to be aware of what I call "historic responsibility" - meaning what I've said before: make sure this will never happen again! And when it comes to refugees, there is actually an opportunity to be taking responsibility: take responisbility that human beings that have lost everything, that have seen war and death, that have had to make unbelieveable sacrifices can find a little bit of hope to live in peace and freedom... And not to be hunting them with pitchforks and baseball bats like in the middle ages because they have darker skin...
And this is actually what hurts my pride... That is a disgrace to Germany! And that is not the Germany I'm proud of... That's the Germany of the dumbasses, of unteachable morons that live in the simplest of worlds because they have the simplest of minds...
Also, I don't want to project a tolerant image, I - and thankfully many many others - AM tolerant... Not for you to see it... Not to make up for the past... But because I feel this way - as a human!
Also: the right of asylum is part of our "Grundgesetz" (which is our constitution)
But yes, I take pride in Germany being a tolerant and open-minded country, that is a strong ally and a reliable business partner... And I don't see no reason (apart from the one mentioned above) not to be...

pyrasur wrote:There is a lot this country does that we don't need to publicize, because we aren't battling "right-wing" extremists.

Oh yeah, what about the GOP?
Just kidding!
But - with all due respect - I think you also have your fair share of embarassments that you don't feel too proud of (like slavery and segregation)... It's just that America as a nation is another "concept"... You are a nation of immigrants that is consistently working to improve... And the way I see it part of your national pride in a way stems from this concept, the American idea: people with different heritage, religions and opinions live together in freedom and peace... (at least I have an American friend that said my theory was quite enlightened... )
And this idea should be a role-model for us here in Germany IMHO...

pyrasur wrote:I don't know how all these ex-communists become "right-wing" so easily, but that's just me.

It's not just you... The thing is those people were used to the fact that their country took responsibility when things were bad... And they still don't see that they need to take responsibility for their lives themselves... They think that refugees take away "their" money (actually there wouldn't be a panny more were there no refugees, but that would really go too far now...) and also, they have the lowest social standing: it's always easier to kick downwards rather than upwards... And they're kind of susceptible to people taking theor hands and promising a better life... Kinda ironic, if you remember that most of them in a way were refugees too not too long ago...

pyrasur wrote:As far as the US goes, there needs to be a consistent policy. The problem is we seem to have a process that is entirely ignored and we are spending money on this system for no reason. It bothers a lot of legal immigrants how long the process takes, when for others it appears so easy. It took my family much longer than necessary because the system is so broken.

I know this is heavily OT but can you elaborate on that? I didn't quite get that and I'm really curious now...

#12 - Bravo

#12 wrote:this means to be aware not of guilt or shame, but to be aware of what I call "historic responsibility"

Hits the nail on the head here. Germans I know wear the fact that they are the opposite of patriotic as a point of pride, when in fact we only need to be wary of extreme nationalism. Like when certain Americans act like America has is "exceptional" because of "God" and it's a City on a Hill and all that nonsense. Obviously we should strive to make it exceptional but the idea that it's inherently exceptional without anybody needing to put in any effort, smh. But that's less annoying to me than students who haven't done sh*t and feel like they are making a statement when they step on the American flag.

As for the legal immigration, it just takes forever for people to make it here, then many times their papers run out because they've been waiting for years for the bureaucracy to deal with them. It took my own parents forever. Hence why bureaucrats need more to be responsible for.

The concept of "historic responsibility" was used in a rather different manner in the era you refer to with it...

Such a burden it was then too. I prefer this version.