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2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:07 pm

There’s a NT coach currently who plays 3-5-2 and can‘t explain why, seems to be a very good idea to needlessly change a system and play players out of position against their will - definite recipe for success…
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Achilles » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:14 pm

The one and only truth is the following.
He stayed with the blessings of DFB therefore he must show "something new" to justify his paycheck.

He prematurely ended some players careers with no reason at all and tries hard to invent something by forcing players to play it despite that doesn't work.

All he had to do is to refresh the team with talented new guys here and there and have a plan B against teams who park the bus. He has multiple top midfielders so Kimmich could be the RB weapon since there is a whole there. Pick a single good CB as your leader and that's it actually.
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm

Achilles wrote:The one and only truth is the following.
He stayed with the blessings of DFB therefore he must show "something new" to justify his paycheck.

He prematurely ended some players careers with no reason at all and tries hard to invent something by forcing players to play it despite that doesn't work.

All he had to do is to refresh the team with talented new guys here and there and have a plan B against teams who park the bus. He has multiple top midfielders so Kimmich could be the RB weapon since there is a whole there. Pick a single good CB as your leader and that's it actually.
Yup

But Nagelsmann seems to go down the same road…
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Ottomeister87 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:45 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:I still can't understand what would make Gnabry a good fullback.

His best attributes are finishing, long range shot and probably 1v1s. He plays his best when he is near or in the box. He is not a defender and by playing full back he'd spend most of the time far from the areas where he is more effective.


He could play that role occasionally in order to accommodate more attacking players under very specific circumstances, but not as a permanent or frequent solution.

These are my feelings exactly! Frankly in my opinion if there was anyone who would take over for Lewa it would be Gnabry as well. I have no doubt that if he was healthy to play PSG last season he would have started as the #9.


I hope as in for maybe a single game, but as permanent replacement in the future? for Lewa Gnabry would be a joke tbh..
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:30 pm

#12 wrote:There’s a NT coach currently who plays 3-5-2 and can‘t explain why, seems to be a very good idea to needlessly change a system and play players out of position against their will - definite recipe for success…


Surely that speaks more about the coach than the formation, no? Unless you're assuming all coaches who use a given formation are implementing the same exact tactics....lol

I don't know that we've heard anything to suggest that Nagelsmann would play any of our players "out of position" or "against their will" but you never know. I guess we should have just played Lahm and Schweinsteiger and etc in their positions that they were comfortable with, by that logic.... :wink:
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:23 pm

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:There’s a NT coach currently who plays 3-5-2 and can‘t explain why, seems to be a very good idea to needlessly change a system and play players out of position against their will - definite recipe for success…


Surely that speaks more about the coach than the formation, no? Unless you're assuming all coaches who use a given formation are implementing the same exact tactics....lol

I don't know that we've heard anything to suggest that Nagelsmann would play any of our players "out of position" or "against their will" but you never know. I guess we should have just played Lahm and Schweinsteiger and etc in their positions that they were comfortable with, by that logic.... :wink:
Well, a good coach nowadays talks to his players and is weighing in their opinions, and finds a system for the players he has, not the other way around…

I have no problem with 3-5-2 - or whatever - per se (while I do think both two striker formations and three atb require much more adjustment…), but when you come to a club that doesn’t have fucking 15m, that won sox titles a year ago and that works just fine, maybe you should hold off playing YOUR system just for the sake of it until you actually had the time and money to get to know the club and bring in new players for it… Mark my words, this is going to implode - heavily…
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:30 pm

#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:There’s a NT coach currently who plays 3-5-2 and can‘t explain why, seems to be a very good idea to needlessly change a system and play players out of position against their will - definite recipe for success…


Surely that speaks more about the coach than the formation, no? Unless you're assuming all coaches who use a given formation are implementing the same exact tactics....lol

I don't know that we've heard anything to suggest that Nagelsmann would play any of our players "out of position" or "against their will" but you never know. I guess we should have just played Lahm and Schweinsteiger and etc in their positions that they were comfortable with, by that logic.... :wink:
Well, a good coach nowadays talks to his players and is weighing in their opinions, and finds a system for the players he has, not the other way around…

I have no problem with 3-5-2 - or whatever - per se (while I do think both two striker formations and three atb require much more adjustment…), but when you come to a club that doesn’t have fucking 15m, that won sox titles a year ago and that works just fine, maybe you should hold off playing YOUR system just for the sake of it until you actually had the time and money to get to know the club and bring in new players for it… Mark my words, this is going to implode - heavily…


Three disagreements:

1. "a good coach nowadays talks to his players and is weighing in their opinions, and finds a system for the players he has, not the other way around" Right now we've no evidence that this hasn't happened/won't happen in the near future.

2. Why did the system that won six titles in 2020 only deliver one title in 2021? Are we really going to claim that that "system" or tactics had nothing to do with it and it's merely because we signed Costa and Sarr instead of Perisic and a better backup RB that we only managed one trophy? Not sure we can really accredit all of our 2020 successes to "system" (especially when you've yourself claimed that we had luck and good health working heavily in our favor and that we probably wouldn't have won without the Covid-break...) while then not blaming any of our 2021 failures on that same "system"...

3. I don't believe our players are so inflexible as to be unable to adapt to play at an extremely high level in a different formation. Who is that hurting? Is the world's best CF really going to be any worse in a 3-5-2 rather than a 4-2-3-1? Is a half-winger half-fullback like Davies going to be worse off as a wingback? Will guys like Lucas, Pavard, and Sule - who already alternate between CB and fullback - will they struggle to adapt to playing as RCB/LCB? Do players like Gnabry, Muller, and Musiala - who already excel as inside forwards - are they suddenly going to struggle in that role once the formation's changed? We have two of the most dynamic midfielders in the world in Kimmich and Goretzka, but I'm supposed to believe they won't be able to adjust and/or keep up?

I just don't see it.

The only issues I really see would be are:

- Coman, who seemingly almost everyone wants to see sold anyways
- Sane, who's been largely deemed a flop at Bayern, even when playing in 4-2-3-1, so what's the harm in trying something new for him?
- And the RWB position, but again - Sarr isn't good enough and according to some Pavard isn't either, so that problem exists whether we play Back-three or Back-four regardless (Either we need a better RB or better RWB, the difference is immaterial)

So like...who suffers that much?
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:55 pm

You serious?

How are being lucky and still deploying our best possible XI mutually exclusive?

Also, yes, I am 100% sure Lewandowski would be worse in a two striker system, as would Müller and we don’t even have a second striker or are we going to make a bigger joke of ourselves by playing the lollipop?
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:31 pm

#12 wrote:You serious?

How are being lucky and still deploying our best possible XI mutually exclusive?

Also, yes, I am 100% sure Lewandowski would be worse in a two striker system, as would Müller and we don’t even have a second striker or are we going to make a bigger joke of ourselves by playing the lollipop?


The way Lewandowski plays with Muller (or Gnabry, or Musiala, or whoever...) under Flick - or even prior to that tbh - is not that different at all from how Nagelsmann has deployed his forwards in the past...Lest we forget Nagelsmann has literally had forwards like Kramaric and Belfodil looking like some of the best in the league - and got career-best years out of Lookman, Joelinton, Werner, and Uth on top of that - but ROBERT LEWANDOWSKI will suffer??????????
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:47 pm

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:You serious?

How are being lucky and still deploying our best possible XI mutually exclusive?

Also, yes, I am 100% sure Lewandowski would be worse in a two striker system, as would Müller and we don’t even have a second striker or are we going to make a bigger joke of ourselves by playing the lollipop?


The way Lewandowski plays with Muller (or Gnabry, or Musiala, or whoever...) under Flick - or even prior to that tbh - is not that different at all from how Nagelsmann has deployed his forwards in the past...Lest we forget Nagelsmann has literally had forwards like Kramaric and Belfodil looking like some of the best in the league - and got career-best years out of Lookman, Joelinton, Werner, and Uth on top of that - but ROBERT LEWANDOWSKI will suffer??????????
What strikers?

Also Kramaric wasn’t exactly a no show after Nagelsmann…

But hey, we‘ll see how Nagelsmann goes here… I doubt this will work out…
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Re: 2021/22 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:14 pm

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