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2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby America USA » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:13 am

Kimmich is a better midfielder than he is a Right back
But he's a better "Wing-Back" than he's a midfielder.

IMO a 3 man CB formation held us play Kimmich at his most productive position.

Get Neuhaus and Modric for midfield. Recall Cuisance if Tolisso is being sold. We have enough midfield talent that way.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby sherpthederp » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:37 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
aterford wrote:I kind of suspect that if we are playing in a back three Nagelsmann will probably be giving Sule a big chance, and Nianzou for better or worse is probably still on the "rotation" side of things, at least for now...

Maybe something more like this going forward:



I don't think Gnabry is really much for a true wingback, but I suspect when defending we would probably have Kimmich drop into that role, and perhaps pull Upamecano up a bit to shield the defense, so something like:



Of course could sub things like Pavard for Sule, Nianzou in for Sule or Upamecano (or even Lucas, I guess!), have Goretzka play up more like a 4-1-4-1, I don't know, just spitballing a bit.

BUT I think at the same time I'm not sure we really have the depth at the moment to make our "primary" XI one that includes three CBs at once as well as 3/5 of Muller, Gnabry, Sane, Coman, Musiala...


I think this whole 3-atb is a terrible idea given our squad, but if we were to do such a thing, it wouldn't make to sense playing Gnabry opposite Davies. The clear choice would be Coman who operated quite well as a traditional non-inverted winger on the right during the last Pep season. Gnabry belongs beside Müller just behind Lewy. Even Sané would be a better choice than Gnabry as a wingback, don't know why people suggest Gnabry there.

I would actually argue the opposite, Sané and Coman do better in tight spaces from a standstill, but Gnabry is actually similar to Davies in that he likes to break and thrives with room to run into. It’s the same reason I think Davies will have more problems if we move him forward. If anything Sané would be suited for the 10 role in a 3412 with his decision making on counters. We may have more “wingers” in our squad as an argument against going wingerless or 3atb but realistically our current wingers are not exactly great at playing traditionally on the wing.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:36 am

sherpthederp wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
aterford wrote:I kind of suspect that if we are playing in a back three Nagelsmann will probably be giving Sule a big chance, and Nianzou for better or worse is probably still on the "rotation" side of things, at least for now...

Maybe something more like this going forward:



I don't think Gnabry is really much for a true wingback, but I suspect when defending we would probably have Kimmich drop into that role, and perhaps pull Upamecano up a bit to shield the defense, so something like:



Of course could sub things like Pavard for Sule, Nianzou in for Sule or Upamecano (or even Lucas, I guess!), have Goretzka play up more like a 4-1-4-1, I don't know, just spitballing a bit.

BUT I think at the same time I'm not sure we really have the depth at the moment to make our "primary" XI one that includes three CBs at once as well as 3/5 of Muller, Gnabry, Sane, Coman, Musiala...


I think this whole 3-atb is a terrible idea given our squad, but if we were to do such a thing, it wouldn't make to sense playing Gnabry opposite Davies. The clear choice would be Coman who operated quite well as a traditional non-inverted winger on the right during the last Pep season. Gnabry belongs beside Müller just behind Lewy. Even Sané would be a better choice than Gnabry as a wingback, don't know why people suggest Gnabry there.

I would actually argue the opposite, Sané and Coman do better in tight spaces from a standstill, but Gnabry is actually similar to Davies in that he likes to break and thrives with room to run into. It’s the same reason I think Davies will have more problems if we move him forward. If anything Sané would be suited for the 10 role in a 3412 with his decision making on counters. We may have more “wingers” in our squad as an argument against going wingerless or 3atb but realistically our current wingers are not exactly great at playing traditionally on the wing.
IMO Gnabry is 90% his finishing. That is THE thing he does well. He is not particularly fast, or a great dribbler, or a great header, or a great crosser, just a great finisher. IMO, putting him far from goal makes no sense. OTOH, I agree that Coman has improved massively in tight spaces but he is also really fast and used to play quite well as a traditional winger. His crossing wasn't THE best, but he wasn't a bad crosser either.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:08 am

I can see it both ways. Gnabry *is* the only one of the bunch who's actually done it before, so he has that going for him, but you could argue he's wasted back there.

Ultimately though it's really just a wingback on paper. Half the time you'd expect to see either Kimmich drift out that way, and I don't think you'd really press up both sides at once, so in effect it'd be like a back four of Davies-Lucas-Upamecano-Sule when Gnabry goes forward, or more like Lucas-Upamecano-Sule-Kimmich/Gnabry when Davies goes forward. But I don't think there'd be a ton of scenarios in which Gnabry would really have "primary" defensive duties or that he'd be consistently be taken that far away from goal. Nagelsmann himself has said on a number of occasions that the formation really pretty much only matters at kickoff and it's going to change 50x over the course of the match, so I would not be too fussed about Gnabry being deployed in that spot on paper.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:11 pm

aterford wrote:I can see it both ways. Gnabry *is* the only one of the bunch who's actually done it before, so he has that going for him, but you could argue he's wasted back there.

Ultimately though it's really just a wingback on paper. Half the time you'd expect to see either Kimmich drift out that way, and I don't think you'd really press up both sides at once, so in effect it'd be like a back four of Davies-Lucas-Upamecano-Sule when Gnabry goes forward, or more like Lucas-Upamecano-Sule-Kimmich/Gnabry when Davies goes forward. But I don't think there'd be a ton of scenarios in which Gnabry would really have "primary" defensive duties or that he'd be consistently be taken that far away from goal. Nagelsmann himself has said on a number of occasions that the formation really pretty much only matters at kickoff and it's going to change 50x over the course of the match, so I would not be too fussed about Gnabry being deployed in that spot on paper.
Right, but I'm not looking at it from the defensive perspective but rather from the perspective that a RWB is the primary crosser and width provider on the right side, so the responsibility of keeping width would be with him. Of course, formations shift during the match and I would expect to see a lot of Müller on the Right Wing space, but ultimately I would expect the RWB to be there most of the time.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:02 pm

I'm curious, why is no one considering Pavard at RWB? If you ask me he's better at going forward than defending. RWB might suit him even better. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Plus, it effectively means that defending we keep the same system but with better CBs (Lucas and Upamecano) AND an extra man. That should do wonders for stabilising our defence. Going forward we lose the wingers (only Davies and Pavard compared to Davies and Pavard + the two wingers) BUT frankly, they have all been terrible this season other than Coman in the first half, we might benefit more from an extra ST to make more space for Lewa. But I don't like the idea of going with just Gnabry there and Choupo as backup for both. I think we'd need another striker to play like that... and we all know who that man should be.



Sextuple-winning material right there. Only problem I see is no obvious backup for Davies. I think we'd need another transfer there. For midfield, I trust Roca to have a more significant role next season.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:07 pm

Pavard is not pacey enough for Nagelsmann... And frankly, I don’t think we need to overhaul THAT much...
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:32 pm

If anything I've felt like Pavard's most natural role is somewhere in between a traditional CB and RB, so more or less like the right-sided CB in a back three here...
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:56 pm

Mukiele?

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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:37 am

30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:41 am

Cutting out a quality starter to play Choco Puddin... Oh my
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:56 am

playing together !!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL come on Naggi ... if you want a partner to Lewa put Serge or buy a new star striker
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:04 am

This is all speculation both by Bild and by us. I don't think he will change our formation, tbh.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:07 pm

They are obviously referring to specific match situations which is not necessarily a bad idea. Or even rotations and things like that

But don't worry, he won't be a regular starter.
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Re: 2020/21 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:16 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:This is all speculation both by Bild and by us. I don't think he will change our formation, tbh.
I mean... We‘re getting a VERY young coach who is new to this exposure, pressure and environment... If he changes too much, it‘ll only get more, meaning, he has to be even more successful...

I think he‘ll mostly play it safe there
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