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2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:53 pm

#12 wrote:You can’t have it both ways... You cannot say it was a successful season and how good our squad is, when we would have struggled in BuLi and DEFINITELY not have made the final without Ulreich, and then say he doesn’t deserve player of the season - which btw, as always, is a completely subjective award...

I don't even judge that. I think it's unfair to compare having Ulreich vs playing the next best goalkeeper (Starke/Fruechtl). If anything (still think it's unfair), I would compare him to Neuer. I didn't see any single Ulreich save that Neuer couldn't have done. It's unbelievable that Neuer didn't win the POTS award (in previous seasons) while Ulreich, a vastly inferior goalkeeper and by far the weakest link from the players who played very regularly last season, got that award. It's simply a sympathy vote because he did better than expected, and to help raise his morale after Real Madrid happened, but there were far better players last season. Also, I never saw Liverpool vote Karius as POTS to make up for his (IMO smaller) mistakes vs Real Madrid. Instead they sold him and he received death threats.
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:57 pm

That’s exactly what it is... You just failed to realize it ;)
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:44 am


until Coman is back.

then

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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MoFattal » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:35 am

I like the first one :mrgreen: Not so much the second as Coman is much better on the wings.
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby DRvad14 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:13 pm

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Not long ago Niko Kovac was announced as the new head coach of Bayern Munich. Compared to former coaches of Bayern, Kovac cannot exhibit a great career as a coach so far. This lead to a lot of scepticism, especially among the supporters of the German record champion. However, the first results in the Bundesliga spreaded more optimism since Bayern was able to dominate their opponents and won the matches.

But what tactical trends are noticeable and is the approach of Kovac a promising one in respect of the Champions League?

Formation and roles
To clarify, Kovac will not reinvent the wheel or establish a new style of play at Bayern. In general, the Croatian manager will continue a lot of aspects of the Bayern philosophy in recent years. But there are some small adjustments which might lead to even more dominance of the reigning champion.

To begin with, Bayern set up in a 4-3-3 formation against Stuttgart. With Ribery, Robben and Lewandowski up front, the line up reminds of the Guardiola era at Bayern. However, the formation will not tell much about the style of play Kovac will deploy. He already confirmed that he also wants to adjust his formation to the opposition during his time in Munich.The roles that the players take over might reveal some of the tactical ideas Kovac bears in mind for this season. In their match against Stuttgart, Thiago played the position of the holding midfielder. Dropping between both centre-backs or between centre-back and full-back, the Spanish international should prepare the final breakthrough with intelligent passes.

Boateng often acts in a higher position than Hummels. He plays laser passes into midfield or occupies opponents with dribblings in order to play diagonal balls to switch sides. At the same time, Hummels covers Boateng’s movement preventing counter-attacks on the halfway line.

Kimmich and Alaba support Ribery and Robben on the wings and situationally take crosses from there. Goretzka and Müller stay between the lines to connect defence and attack in the centre. And last but not least, Lewandowski either drops into central areas or provides depth while waiting for goal scoring opportunities.

U-shape to break a compact block
Munich players position themselves around the compact block of the opponent. This is a consequence of the assumption that a really compact opponent with short horizontal distances to the next player might be penetrable with passes around the block. The compactness of the defending team avoids them to cover the full width of the pitch. Therefore, the team in possession might be able to progress up the pitch on the wings after switching sides quicker than the opponent can shift.he two advanced central midfielders are the only two players that are positioned inside the opposition block. Situationally, Lewandowski drops into space inside the block. The most common pattern in Bayern’s play is then to play a pass inside the block and from there outside again. By playing into the centre, Munich plays into a highly underloaded zone where they occupy a lot of opponents. This leads to a numerical superiority outside of the block, that FCB can utilise to break through on the wings.

Attacking on the wings
Moreover, Kovac lays emphasize on attacking in wide areas. Kimmich and Alaba as the full-backs move up the pitch and serve crosses from the flanks. Thereby Munich make use of the heading abilities of Lewandowski as well as the central midfielders Müller and Goretzka.
The picture above shows a typical situation in Bayern’s match against Stuttgart where FCB attacks over the left wing. Müller, Ribery and Alaba create a 3v3 situation on the left flank. Thereby, Alaba gets into a position where he can take a cross. Lewandowski already awaits the cross and Goretzka joins his teammate in the penalty box with a run on the blind side of his opponent.

Ribery, Robben, Gnabry and the injured Coman are unpredictable on the wings. All of them can either cut inside or stay outside and take crosses as well. Kovac utilises his wingers’ abilities in dribbling situations for the breakthrough. This is a key concept for sides that have such high possession rates like Bayern since most opponents keep spaces tight with a low defensive block. The ability to outplay one or two players by dribbling can create spaces somewhere else on the pitch.

Gegenpressing
Niko Kovac sides are known for a high amount of scored goals after winning the ball back. One of the most noticeable aspects of Bayern in their first matches was their good structure allowing them to counter-press immediately after losing the ball. All players move towards the ball and shut down the passing lanes. This enables Bayern players to recover the ball with interceptions since the opposition still needs to organise and lacks orientation in a lot of cases.

Especially the centre-backs follow the opponent’s strikers to prevent any short passes. That way Bayern prevented Stuttgart from progressing up the pitch. The side if Korkut was not even able to produce a single shot on target. However, this opens up huge spaces in behind which poses a risk. Whereas Stuttgart was not able to exploit these spaces, teams that leave one or two men further up the pitch could use it for dangerous counter-attacks.

Chasing the ball and opponent
Being out of possession, Bayern chase the ball with a really high intensity. Thereby, one player presses the ball and the other players position themselves between opposition players. Due to this clever positioning, Bayern can successfully press the opposition with fewer players since they create situations where one player can defend two opponents.

The opposition often reacts with a long ball to decrease the risk of losing the ball in an area near their own goal. As Munich mostly press only with three or a maximum of four players, they have enough players to gain the first and the second ball and thereby recover possession. This proves that Bayern will aim at dominating the game over possession. In their match against Stuttgart, FCB had a possession rate of 68%.

Conclusion
To sum up, Kovac combines a simple but effective tactical approach with great individual players. Especially the Gegenpressing of Kovac worked out perfectly against Stuttgart. So far, Bayern did not struggle with any opponent.

However, it will be interesting how Munich act against Champions League teams that they can not control over possession. But it is also imaginable that Kovac will decide to play in a more defensive manner against the top teams in the international competition. No matter what, the Croation coach proved his tactical knowledge in the first matches and one can already look forward to Bayern’s performance in the Champions League this season.
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby America USA » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:37 am

We haven’t seen any tactical or formation change from Kovac so far. The pressing was/is the only positive. Our counters still suck for the most part. Finishing our chances has regressed recently because of rotation.

After the international break, provided none of our players gets hurt, I want to see the same starting eleven for the next seven games (until the next International break):


Martinez looks like he’s playing with his legs tied, he is that damn slow nowadays!
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby theundead » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:53 am

America USA wrote:We haven’t seen any tactical or formation change from Kovac so far. The pressing was/is the only positive. Our counters still suck for the most part. Finishing our chances has regressed recently because of rotation.

After the international break, provided none of our players gets hurt, I want to see the same starting eleven for the next seven games (until the next International break):


Martinez looks like he’s playing with his legs tied, he is that damn slow nowadays!


Bench Thomas too. Put in Gnabry
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby America USA » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:06 am

theundead wrote:
America USA wrote:We haven’t seen any tactical or formation change from Kovac so far. The pressing was/is the only positive. Our counters still suck for the most part. Finishing our chances has regressed recently because of rotation.

After the international break, provided none of our players gets hurt, I want to see the same starting eleven for the next seven games (until the next International break):


Martinez looks like he’s playing with his legs tied, he is that damn slow nowadays!


Bench Thomas too. Put in Gnabry

Muller should play just so that it can finally be seen what he can do playing with a proper CF. A lot of guys here still believe in him and think playing him with/near/behind Lewandowski is the answer.

If he fails again then that should be that. For me this season is his last chance to show that he’s still got it in him. In the end his image as Mr. Bayern will take him only so far..
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:46 am

America USA wrote:
theundead wrote:
America USA wrote:We haven’t seen any tactical or formation change from Kovac so far. The pressing was/is the only positive. Our counters still suck for the most part. Finishing our chances has regressed recently because of rotation.

After the international break, provided none of our players gets hurt, I want to see the same starting eleven for the next seven games (until the next International break):


Martinez looks like he’s playing with his legs tied, he is that damn slow nowadays!


Bench Thomas too. Put in Gnabry

Muller should play just so that it can finally be seen what he can do playing with a proper CF. A lot of guys here still believe in him and think playing him with/near/behind Lewandowski is the answer.

If he fails again then that should be that. For me this season is his last chance to show that he’s still got it in him. In the end his image as Mr. Bayern will take him only so far..


Agreed, and I'm one of those who believes so.
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:14 am

Didn’t he play there yesterday??
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby rthebest » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:52 pm

Every single team knows Bayern is all about wing play and our wingers are ineffective So I think it is time to start play narrow forward line and use the old wingers as plan B. I would play Gnabry as CF. He has eye for goal and he has a good pace.
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:00 pm

rthebest wrote:Every single team knows Bayern is all about wing play and our wingers are ineffective So I think it is time to start play narrow forward line and use the old wingers as plan B. I would play Gnabry as CF. He has eye for goal and he has a good pace.
Many think the same... hope we do so
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Jorge » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:45 pm

rthebest wrote:Every single team knows Bayern is all about wing play and our wingers are ineffective So I think it is time to start play narrow forward line and use the old wingers as plan B. I would play Gnabry as CF. He has eye for goal and he has a good pace.


This is a good observation, that is how Bayern won the Champions League when two top notch wingers were paired with two top notch full backs and Bayern terrorized the rest of Europe, on their way to the top thrashing the legitimate reference of an era: Barcelona. But I would say that we had a solid central midfield as well although our central defense was average at best based on individuals but somehow in-sync to the team what made it good. Just look at how good Dante was and what he became thereafter.

But was there continuity on this model? NO. Guardiola tried hard to change the vertical move on the wings to a more horizontal diagram where the wingers will participate more in the rotation of the ball and try to penetrate openings in the opponents' backline more centrally in tighter spaces, rather than closer to the sideline. Ever since wing play has come and go but it is not a staple of the team anymore.

If I have to take a guess Kovac is trying hard to change the way the team plays and wing play is still part of the arsenal of tools that he wants to display but between some players having aged and become predictable while others still having the mentality of a more slower ball rotation his tactics are falling completely flat.

The one thing he needs to start gaining traction is player movement off the ball, that's how he was able to get results out of Frankfurt. Ironically, Ajax in the 2nd half showed him exactly that, their movement off the ball is surreal and they cut through Bayern's lines like a hot knife through butter.

I am seeing right now an uphill battle to turn the team around, unless he speaks loud and clear that a lot more running and speed is needed and those not doing it, (regardless of who they are) are going to the bench he is not going to accomplish much. If the idea of rotation was part of team progression it is probably the time to start rewarding some with a starting spot and relegating others to a more secondary role.
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby America USA » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Possession football sucks ass! Please please Dump the 4231 after playing with the same formation for seven god damn years! Only Jupp can make it work to some extent but even he would struggle with Robbery as our wingers!
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Re: 2018/19 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:29 pm

As I said on the match thread ... We need change. Effective change would preferable, but at this point I would take ANY change.

Dump wingplay and excessive possession... Dump Robbery asap... If Kovac cannot bring in new ideas in the next 3 games, dump him as well. Ideally dump Brazzo a bring in someone with a strong character (cue Lahm).

Something new... 4222, 442-d, 352, 3412... Faster movement of the ball... Riskier football... Less patience...

Lewy-Gnabry
James-Müller
Thiago-Javi

Lewy-Müller
Renato-James
Thiago-Goretzka

Gnabry-Müller
James-Goretzka
Thiago-Javi

Something, something, ANYTHING BUT THIS TIRED AND IN EFFECTIVE 4231!!!





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