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2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby mats19 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:00 pm

Great article. I predict that Carlo will stablize the team next year, but I do not guarantee that players will be playing in their full potential..
Neither that we gonna win the Bundesliga this year (what is good sportwise.. We've already won 4 times..)
May Bayern rule the world again!
Mia San Mia
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:09 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Yea, not like Simeone didn't change his tactics in the second leg, but apparently you guys dont understand basic football.


His tactics was to let us score two goals? If anything he parked the bus even more to seal a 0-0 draw taking advantage of the first leg score. Having Mueller to support Lewandowski nearly broke the wall, hell it actually did and we only went out because Boateng went stupid.

I don't get your fascination with the one-striker system when Pep played most of his games with both Müller and Lewandowski. When has it actually worked better?
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2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:10 pm

Coman wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:I think our squad fits a 433 better


About what do you say that ?

Everything in the last 6 years proove Bayern is better in a 4-2-3-1 formation ... absolutly everything. In particulary the few time Bayern played in 4-3-3 in the first leg with a really bad game and played in 4-2-3-1 in the second leg with a great game...


We have a ton of quality midfielders and no top-class wingers, thus playing a winger-heavy formation means more quality on the bench than on the wings.

Look, Its quite simple: in the abstrct (disregarding tactics and feelings) id rather have on the pitch Thiago, Vidal, Javi or even Renato than Costa, Coman or Robbery. DISREGARDING tactics. My argument is that our squad is built for a 433 (in which we can field 3 MFs and only the LW is filled by a not-WC player) not for a 442 OR 4231 (in which we can only field 2 MFs and have both wings occupied by not-WC players). Ideally we should play 41212 though, that way all of our best players could be fielded at the same time.

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:14 pm

I firmly believe that 4-3-3 is the best football system period. That being said, right now it doesn't fit us one bit. You need a world class regista, world class wingers and most importantly a tactically-astute coach for it to work. We have none of those things right now.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:22 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:I firmly believe that 4-3-3 is the best football system period. That being said, right now it doesn't fit us one bit. You need a world class regista, world class wingers and most importantly a tactically-astute coach for it to work. We have none of those things right now.


Yeah i agree, mayor we should just play 442 and be happy about it. We are la lacking at least 1 player for the 433 To works.


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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:31 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Coman wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:I think our squad fits a 433 better


About what do you say that ?

Everything in the last 6 years proove Bayern is better in a 4-2-3-1 formation ... absolutly everything. In particulary the few time Bayern played in 4-3-3 in the first leg with a really bad game and played in 4-2-3-1 in the second leg with a great game...


We have a ton of quality midfielders and no top-class wingers, thus playing a winger-heavy formation means more quality on the bench than on the wings.

Look, Its quite simple: in the abstrct (disregarding tactics and feelings) id rather have on the pitch Thiago, Vidal, Javi or even Renato than Costa, Coman or Robbery. DISREGARDING tactics. My argument is that our squad is built for a 433 (in which we can field 3 MFs and only the LW is filled by a not-WC player) not for a 442 OR 4231 (in which we can only field 2 MFs and have both wings occupied by not-WC players). Ideally we should play 41212 though, that way all of our best players could be fielded at the same time.

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So for you Thiago and an old Alonso who can't even run are world class ?

If they are, then Costa also is. But he isn't. Same for the 2 others.

Our squad is made for 4-3-3 ? On paper yes. But on the field it's another thing. Vidal, Lewandowski, Müller and Lahm, 4 really important players are underperforming in this system. Even Sanches perform in a MF-duo in Benfica. Even Coman played great this season only the few time we were in 4-2-3-1. From this point, we shouldn't use this system anymore.

The only fact Lewandowski and Müller together scored way more goals in a 4-2-3-1 should be more considered by Ancelotti. And I don't care about the MF who will lose his spot, whatever if it's Thiago, Alonso, Sanches or Kimmich. I don't say Vidal because we all know how important he is.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:40 pm

Coman wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
Coman wrote:[quote="PunkCapitalist"]I think our squad fits a 433 better


About what do you say that ?

Everything in the last 6 years proove Bayern is better in a 4-2-3-1 formation ... absolutly everything. In particulary the few time Bayern played in 4-3-3 in the first leg with a really bad game and played in 4-2-3-1 in the second leg with a great game...


We have a ton of quality midfielders and no top-class wingers, thus playing a winger-heavy formation means more quality on the bench than on the wings.

Look, Its quite simple: in the abstrct (disregarding tactics and feelings) id rather have on the pitch Thiago, Vidal, Javi or even Renato than Costa, Coman or Robbery. DISREGARDING tactics. My argument is that our squad is built for a 433 (in which we can field 3 MFs and only the LW is filled by a not-WC player) not for a 442 OR 4231 (in which we can only field 2 MFs and have both wings occupied by not-WC players). Ideally we should play 41212 though, that way all of our best players could be fielded at the same time.

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So for you Thiago and an old Alonso who can't even run are world class ?

If they are, then Costa also is. But he isn't. Same for the 2 others.

Our squad is made for 4-3-3 ? On paper yes. But on the field it's another thing. Vidal, Lewandowski, Müller and Lahm, 4 really important players are underperforming in this system. Even Sanches perform in a MF-duo in Benfica. From this point, we shouldn't use this system anymore.

The only fact Lewandowski and Müller together scored way more goals in a 4-2-3-1 should be more considered by Ancelotti. And I don't care about the MF who will lose his spot, whatever if it's Thiago, Alonso, Sanches or Kimmich. I don't say Vidal because we all know how important he is.[/quote]

I think Thiago is close to WC while Costa is nowhere near that. I never mentioned Alonso, idk why the hell is he still playing so much.

And i was always talking on the paper. I said do what ever is necesary.

Just a clarification; Müller scored a ton last season, but his assist output also took a big dive. Not as simple as you want it to be.


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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:50 pm

It's not only about Müller but also about Lewandowski. And also about the all team.

They complete each others like Ronaldo and Benzema. Even more in fact.

Müller scored a ton last season but his assist output took a big dive ? True.

Now both goals and assists from Müller take a big dive and same for Lewandowski. I would sacrifice Alonso or any MF everyday to see their goals come back.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:02 pm

If I was the manager this is how we'd play... good thing I'm not right? :P #JankeRaus #MuellerIsNotAWinger



If Robben is fit I'd change the formation cause he's too valuable... in that case I'd sacrifice Thiago and play 4-2-3-1.

If Mueller could play all those years for Germany on the wings and for most part of 2012/13 for Bayern, I don't see why he can't today.



If Pedro could play on the wings for all those years for Barca and today for Chelsea... I don't see why Mueller can't do it better.

I want the better goalscorers all starting...

I'd make our standard lineup after Robbery 3-5-2, 3-4-3, 3-3-2-2...
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:05 pm

JANCKER wrote:If Mueller could play all those years for Germany on the wings and for most part of 2012/13 for Bayern, I don't see why he can't today.


I like the formation. Also this is my recent post in a Javi thread and thought I'd move it here because it might make a decent discussion about Müller's role.

Dumbledore7 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Playing on the RW is no excuse for Müller cause he is used to that in the NT. So Manu players unexcusably underperforming is not on Carlo.


Off-topic but Müller's role and position is not such a black-and-white thing to assess. "He played on the right before, so he should be able to now" hides the intricacies of his role or profile. In the most recent Bayern and Germany systems he is required to be an RW who has to do things on the ball. That's not his strength, his technical skill is not better than a mid-table average winger. In our treble season, despite being a nominal RW when Robben was benched, he 1) drifted inside to add numbers to the opposing box; 2) launched one-time low crosses; and 3) pull defenders away from Mandzukic, Kroos and Ribery.

In the Euros he had no other top forward to support and was required to be an outlet. That's not his style. It's not that he's asked to play as an RW now and he can't play RW - it's that he's asked to hold the ball for more than 10 seconds and beat 2-3 players with it. I feel like whether it's Müller or Robben as the RW, Ancelotti would tell them the exact same instructions, "get on the ball and do stuff with it". Jupp and Pep are too intelligent for that.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:12 pm

Like Dumbledore said for Müller on the right wing in Germany or under Heynckes :

- not same partners, in particular no Özil/Kroos and no Lahm at his best level
- different philosophy, more direct, less pass
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2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:13 pm

Id be fine with Janckers formation (but i would write it as a 41212 with Ribery as the ten and Kimmich instead of Lahm :D)


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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:20 pm

Anyway this is how I'd field Bayern's best XI



This lineup can take on so many shapes, it's ridiculous.

Spoiler: show




Positions and formations are overrated. Let the best 11 players be on the pitch and assign players roles that match their profiles, not positions.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:28 pm

You forgot our coach is Ancelotti and not Guardiola anymore.

3-2-3-2 or 3-1-4-2 with wingers ... it's on Playstation with Carlo 8)
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:29 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:and Kimmich instead of Lahm )


Out of respect, I didn't... hard thing to do if Lahm doesn't ask himself for it, he owns this place(the next Hoeness).
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