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2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:43 am

Neither are we creating anything except for crosses... As soon as there are two solid defenders we look like a bunch kindergarteners trying to reach the lollipop up on the kitchen counter...
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:10 am

4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 with Müller and Lewandowski are the only two tactics who can garanted success for the club.

4-2-3-1 = Bayern. It's like 4-3-3 = Barcelona.

Our last 4 seasons are a big enough proof for that.

2011/12 and 2012/13

Just look at the game against Wolfsburg last season :

1st HT : Neuer - Lahm, Boateng, Alaba, Bernat - Vidal, Alonso, Thiago - Götze, Müller, Costa = 0-1 for Wolfsburg.

2nd HT : Neuer - Lahm, Martinez, Boateng, Alaba - Vidal, Alonso - Götze, Müller, Costa - Lewandowski = 5-1 for Bayern


Müller + Lewandowski + 2 wingers is the main key of potential success, because yes, on a tactical point of view Müller as an AM is our most important player with Lewandowski. In the same way Barcelona attack MSN is their key.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:16 am

I was wrong... very wrong... I still remember saying that under C.A we will switch to a 433 & it will be successful.
Some of you here did not agree from the beginning.

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:52 pm

Boateng has been standing off players since, well, forever. It's his style, at least when in a deep block. The rest of the team is rapidly losing it's quality to press hard, high, and most importantly, with co-ordination. Much of it is due to a combination of Ancelotti's Italian heritage (tactically speaking in this case) and his lax method of coaching. The issue, of course, is that a deep block really has no business at Bayern unless we play Barca or City, and it has even less business at Bayern when the front line is still accustomed to a more aggressive block. If Ancelotti wants to create space in midfield for the opposition to exploit, then that's how to do it. That's why our midfield has been looking so weak despite an extra man there nominally - a disjointed pressing/blocking system that leaves the midfield stranded.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:58 pm

quaazi wrote:Boateng has been standing off players since, well, forever. It's his style, at least when in a deep block. The rest of the team is rapidly losing it's quality to press hard, high, and most importantly, with co-ordination. Much of it is due to a combination of Ancelotti's Italian heritage (tactically speaking in this case) and his lax method of coaching. The issue, of course, is that a deep block really has no business at Bayern unless we play Barca or City, and it has even less business at Bayern when the front line is still accustomed to a more aggressive block. If Ancelotti wants to create space in midfield for the opposition to exploit, then that's how to do it. That's why our midfield has been looking so weak despite an extra man there nominally - a disjointed pressing/blocking system that leaves the midfield stranded.


Super analysis =D>
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:07 pm

I can still remember our super confidence the moment Hummels was declared a Bayern player. We started seeing photoshops of Neuer asleep or enjoying a glass of wine thanks to the wall before him...
It was an anti climax as we almost forgot how to keep a clean sheet.
Opponents are shooting at will more than ever before and we are still being exposed.
In my op the prob lies in mdf. There are two black holes one that links the df to the mdf and one that links it to the att.
So if you are seeing this testardo bastardo try this out when you can.
Vidal + Martinez / Thiago / Kimmich / Renato as mdf duo
Muller / Thiago behind Lewa.
4_2_3_1


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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby rthebest » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:47 am

Bayern hired the wrong Italian

Conte said: "It was because in my mind I wanted to play with 4-2-4. I wanted to start the season with this because you have wingers who are strong one vs. one and I like to play with two strikers very close together.
http://www.espnfc.com/chelsea/story/2991199/antonio-conte-admits-3-4-3-formation-was-always-his-second-preference
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Bentonomo » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:20 am

Exactly what we need
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:30 pm

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:57 pm

Coman wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2673739-time-for-carlo-ancelotti-to-make-thiago-alacantara-bayerns-anchorman#articles/2673739-time-for-carlo-ancelotti-to-make-thiago-alacantara-bayerns-anchorman


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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:03 pm

rthebest wrote:Bayern hired the wrong Italian

Conte said: "It was because in my mind I wanted to play with 4-2-4. I wanted to start the season with this because you have wingers who are strong one vs. one and I like to play with two strikers very close together.
http://www.espnfc.com/chelsea/story/2991199/antonio-conte-admits-3-4-3-formation-was-always-his-second-preference

Would have gone with a 424 as well...
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:24 pm

Just my point of view why a classic 4-2-3-1 is better than Ancelotti's 4-3-3

Defensive phase :

In a 4-3-3 system like the Ancelotti's one, our 3 forwards have freedom

Our 3 forwards freedom become a problem when Bayern loses the ball or can't keep the ball. They haven't for first duty to help our fullbacks or our midfielder.

Then it's to our LCM and RCM to cover and help our fullbacks most of the time. It's not directly the problem but there is a consequence : our CDM is alone to cover our 2 CBs.

Image

In a 4-2-3-1, all is more easy about the defense :
- RW and LW are here to help RB and LB.
- RCM and LCM are here to help RCB and LCB.
- AM and ST are free to press, to help too etc, all depends on what happen in the game.

Image

Build-up phase :

In Ancelotti's 4-3-3, Alonso is here for that. Then the fullbacks can go forward easily.

Still, again a high and intense opponents pressing could happen a moment where the team is without solution in the axe to go foward, our two CM are too deep because their main aim : cover our Fullbacks. Then our 2 side forwards (free) has to help in the axe to give solution.
Image

In 4-2-3-1, no assigned DM to help the CB's for the build up. Then, it's to 3 or 4 players, by turn-over (dictated by what happen in the game and what the opponent does) to help. The players has to be smart and the system is more asymmetric.

Image


I don't even need to say 4-2-3-1 fit better some of our players like Vidal, Sanches and Müller.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:00 pm

@Coman, I really like your reasoning and appreciate your knowledge. =D>
Seriously you should consider taking up a coaching course, if you haven't got one already.

Your NT is waiting for you :wink:
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:18 pm

ramsej84 wrote:@Coman, I really like your reasoning and appreciate your knowledge. =D>
Seriously you should consider taking up a coaching course, if you haven't got one already.

Your NT is waiting for you :wink:


:oops: :oops:
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:06 pm

we have no wingers atm 4-3-1-2
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