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2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:06 am

SrLuisGuilherme wrote:Martinez at central midfield: hopes going up!

But Alonso stays on the field while he was the weakest.

Hopes going down.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:45 am

JANCKER wrote:Stop hating on Kimmich(soon your Barca will come and offer 100m for him)... Robbery are showing that they still got it, they just need to stay injury free.

Kimmich is a mix of Kramer and Bender.
Thiago is a mix of Iniesta + Pirlo.

Fact.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Achilles » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:01 am

At the winterbreak it would be a nice chance for Ancelotti and his staff to re-consider some things about tactics & formations so he could make some of our core players 100% useful(Muller & Costa) while working on a completely another formation without wingers just in case and as a plan B.. our roster can suit well enough in a 4-4-2 diamond that Carlo played under Milan!

He can even use Robben next to Lewy for instance instead of Muller, in the 4-4-2 diamond the fullbacks can make the difference offensively and the covers from midfield can be bery useful when we defend. I don't mind but it would be nice to escape from time to time the 4-3-3 playing Muller on the wings I don't care which way I just mentioned 4-4-2 diamond because Ancelotti mastered it at his Milan days.

3-5-2 with Javi Martinez as libero copying somehow the great Bilbao when Bielsa was in charge or Pep's at our best game IMO under him the cup against BVB I enjoyed so much that 3-man defense with Javi being the ultimate boss. Well Ancelotti may doesn't have a clue playing this formation but working on alternatives systems and tactics would be beneficial!
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:32 am

Achilles wrote:At the winterbreak it would be a nice chance for Ancelotti and his staff to re-consider some things about tactics & formations so he could make some of our core players 100% useful(Muller & Costa) while working on a completely another formation without wingers just in case and as a plan B.. our roster can suit well enough in a 4-4-2 diamond that Carlo played under Milan!

He can even use Robben next to Lewy for instance instead of Muller, in the 4-4-2 diamond the fullbacks can make the difference offensively and the covers from midfield can be bery useful when we defend. I don't mind but it would be nice to escape from time to time the 4-3-3 playing Muller on the wings I don't care which way I just mentioned 4-4-2 diamond because Ancelotti mastered it at his Milan days.

3-5-2 with Javi Martinez as libero copying somehow the great Bilbao when Bielsa was in charge or Pep's at our best game IMO under him the cup against BVB I enjoyed so much that 3-man defense with Javi being the ultimate boss. Well Ancelotti may doesn't have a clue playing this formation but working on alternatives systems and tactics would be beneficial!

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Achilles » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:14 pm

Does anybody else thinks that Martinez-Hummels duo works better and looks more solid than Boa-Hummels or I'm having illusions?
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:18 pm

Achilles wrote:Does anybody else thinks that Martinez-Hummels duo works better and looks more solid than Boa-Hummels or I'm having illusions?


Boateng and Hummels had a midfield who didn't work like it should all the previous game while Martinez had the chance yesterday to have a great midfielder to protect him.

Just look at Hummels who wasn't so good the games before.. he was, imo, better than Martinez against Gladbach.

Like Ancelotti said, football is a story of balance. We saw this balance yesterday.

Martinez is a really good CB but there is now way he complete better Hummels than Boateng imo. World champions, they show their complementarity every time they play with Germany.

At least we could ask ourself if Boateng is at his top level right now. Not really much, imo.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:20 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Robbery is not in their prime. We no longer NEED to rely on wingplay.

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So we only did it cause we NEEDED to do it?

We lack creativity and penetration ability without either of Robben, Ribéry, Coman, Costa... We COULD abandon wingplay - but we'd need three or four different players first...
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:29 pm

#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Robbery is not in their prime. We no longer NEED to rely on wingplay.

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So we only did it cause we NEEDED to do it?

We lack creativity and penetration ability without either of Robben, Ribéry, Coman, Costa... We COULD abandon wingplay - but we'd need three or four different players first...

You missed my point. When we had prime Robbery, wingplay was the natural choice cause we had WC wingers. We no longer have WC wingers so we can look into wingless tactics that fit our squad better. For instance, I think we should get someone like James and play a 4312:

Lewy-Müller
James
Renato-Vidal
Thiago
Alaba-Hummels-Boa-Kimmich
Neuer

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby SrLuisGuilherme » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:32 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Robbery is not in their prime. We no longer NEED to rely on wingplay.

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So we only did it cause we NEEDED to do it?

We lack creativity and penetration ability without either of Robben, Ribéry, Coman, Costa... We COULD abandon wingplay - but we'd need three or four different players first...

You missed my point. When we had prime Robbery, wingplay was the natural choice cause we had WC wingers. We no longer have WC wingers so we can look into wingless tactics that fit our squad better. For instance, I think we should get someone like James and play a 4312:

Lewy-Müller
James
Renato-Vidal
Thiago
Alaba-Hummels-Boa-Kimmich
Neuer

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Costa for example is one step ahead James right now... We don't need RM bench warmers in our team.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:33 pm

SrLuisGuilherme wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:[quote="PunkCapitalist"]Robbery is not in their prime. We no longer NEED to rely on wingplay.

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So we only did it cause we NEEDED to do it?

We lack creativity and penetration ability without either of Robben, Ribéry, Coman, Costa... We COULD abandon wingplay - but we'd need three or four different players first...

You missed my point. When we had prime Robbery, wingplay was the natural choice cause we had WC wingers. We no longer have WC wingers so we can look into wingless tactics that fit our squad better. For instance, I think we should get someone like James and play a 4312:

Lewy-Müller
James
Renato-Vidal
Thiago
Alaba-Hummels-Boa-Kimmich
Neuer

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

Costa for example is one step ahead James right now... We don't need RM bench warmers in our team.[/quote]
Costa is nowhere near James. He is not a WC player IMO, but explaining this point would take me too much time atm. Short version: lots of speed, zero brain.

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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby SrLuisGuilherme » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:36 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Costa is nowhere near James. He is not a WC player IMO, but explaining this point would take me too much time atm. Short version: lots of speed, zero brain.

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Neither is James right now tbh. And after all those assists last season, saying Costa doesn't have a brain is ridiculous.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:40 pm

Fit our squad better... Do they really?
Cause I think that lineup looks awfully slow...
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:42 pm

James ? Pay 80M€ for an overated player who spend his time in nightclub according to spanish media. No thanks.

Ribéry and Robben not in their prime ?

They are still our best player and will still be better than James in 2 years.

Playing without winger is a step backward.




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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:45 pm

#12 wrote:Fit our squad better... Do they really?
Cause I think that lineup looks awfully slow...

Plus to play possession football like we did since 2009, wingers is useful to broaden the game.

Bayern would be better with, for exemple, Draxler and Costa on the wing, than with a 4-3-1-2 system.
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Re: 2016/17 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:08 pm

You might have a point #12 that might be too slow. But maybe that's not such a bad thing, speed in the mind is more important than speed in the feet. We don't need wingers to broaden the field, full backs can also do it (Lahm is a problem there). What's important is having two or three players that can play with each other in the corner zone. That's our problem with Lahm. He doesnt go up so Müller doesn't have who to play with. Last game we did better because Vidal/Thiago Müller/Lewy and Rafinha/Alaba found each other in the L/R side of the box and played together.

On the other points:

1) James is a great player. He doesn't play in Madrid cause they already have Kroos who doesn't defend and Modric who is a b2b, so they HAVE to put a defensive MF. This is how good James is:

Image

2) Costa is all speed and no brain. His dribbles mostly go nowhere. He has little vision. He is bad at shooting at goal. His crosses have improved but still almost random. The reason Costa amazed amazing stats last season is that Pep's system had an extremely limited role for wingers which requires literally zero intelligence: 1) stay close to the line 2) take 1-2 defenders on by using brute speed 3) cross into de box. Literally needs zero intelligence to apply that system. Any other system specially a 433 requires a much more intelligent player. There is a reason Costa has only looked good for Pep in his whole career, it's just no coincidence.

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