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2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby pyrasur » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:07 pm

Sweet, the author is from Atlanta.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:34 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:For those saying the game against Leverkusen was Jupp-like


Hope you don't mean me cause again, I never said that... :P :D

Spielverlagerung is awesome but I usually confine myself to reading only Bayern articles... They're generally all very good but who has the time? :( :(

And yes, I agree with you, the first goal was kind of an ignition but before we were nit particularly good... And there were two penalties... We need to be more determined and faster on offense to create more danger...


See here I wrote a wall of text and the most important thing I completely forgot:
"Umschaltspiel" also encompasses backwards movement and this is actually (even if it's moving away from the counterattack-tempo subject) the biggest problem I personally have with Guardiola's style: backwards movement is in dire need of improvement - especially against teams that actually do mainly use counterattacking approaches... We are easily caught off guard (which actually I think DID look better in the Leverkusen match) and pretty vulnerable... Guardiola's approach to this is to not lose the ball in dangerous or difficult situations or if it'S lost, trying to get it back right away... Heynckes approach was to get "manpower" behind the ball as fast as possible... I'd say Guardiola's style is a little more risky, whil Heynckes used a safety net... I'm not blaming Guardiola for taking the risk, but IMHO, if you DO take that kind of risk, your team needs to profit from it in some way - usually on the offense - and honestly, I don't see the real use of the high line... It IS good for securing balls that somehow get lost or to tighten the pressure - but once some team manages to free themselves from pressing it's definitely our weak spot... And everyone knows that... It's just that there are few teams that have skill and ability to make use of it...
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:35 pm

pyrasur wrote:Sweet, the author is from Atlanta.


You're busted! So you might as well admit it! :P :D
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby pyrasur » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:44 pm

Actually it's more likely to be nm or AtlantaFC than me ;). I live in the sticks now bro
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:52 pm

Just like me... :P (granted, that means something else in Germany than the US, but still... :P :D)

What is it with all you Atlantaneans and soccer anyway? Must be cause all your teams suck... :P :D
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:56 pm

#12 wrote: how is his winnig "everything" ONLY in Barcelona proof of his skills, when you basically say ALL THE TIME that it's more or less luck to win the CL?


I don't know how and don't think winning everything in Barca a proof of his skill, because I never said anything like that. Paraphrasing my first post in plain non-sarcasstic English: a coach of his calibre would be aware of using counter-attacks when the situation calls for it, contrasting claims that he only plays boring football and whenever the team counter-attacks, it's only because Jupp taught us about it back then.

I'm not arguing with you unless I'm correcting something like the misinterpretation of my post as above. Also, 300m my arse.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby albanian7 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:13 am

Yes, against Bayer, the team looked more like Jupp than usually. Not because Jupp is the inventor of soccer, but because not getting destroyed on counter, creating chances (with shit finishing, but damn, Lewy has been a striker for his whole life, Pep cannot spend weeks teaching him how to finish so that's the last thing I blame on Pep), pressing well, fast football, no U-passes, moving forward most of the time, wingplay, having a strong midfield presence in Vidal, etc - are all things that we have seen under Jupp when we won the treble, therefore we associate them with good things.

Doing these things is not copying Jupp. Doing these things means having a perfectly fine tactical plan (Robben and Lewy not passing and Costa hitting the post was not something the tactical plan can plan) and having the players to excecute it. Pep did his job perfectly well and so did the players

I have no doubt that in Pep's perfect dream, our team plays more like Jupp's Bayern than like we played against Porto in the first leg. I have 0 doubt that Pep wants the best for the team and that he really wants to play an attractive game.

Do the players always get his system, ideas, tinkering? That's another thing to discuss. Do the players pass the ball backwards because they want to, or because they're afraid of losing the ball? But none of us thinks Pep is a monster that wants to see boring tiki-taka and hates Bayern
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:21 am

Thanks for that sensible post without neither criticising or over-crediting Pep or Jupp. Although winning football doesn't always have to be associated with Jupp's football, intentionally or not, I guess it makes sense because Pep is after all meant to be the Phase III after Jupp's Phase II.

albanian7 wrote: But none of us thinks Pep is a monster that wants to see boring tiki-taka and hates Bayern


This however I'm not too sure on. Not talking about you at all but I swear some of these people (e.g. Korab) would even love to see Pep fails just to prove their point.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby albanian7 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:47 am

No no. Every football that won with merit is winning football. Pep's Barça was winning football, same as Barça in 2015, Klopp in 2012 (league), City in 2014 (league) Real in Allianz (2014) - only mentioning the last years.

Winning football is associated with Jupp's 2013 because we won everything then, it was the best Bayern we've seen (and none of us were alive in 1974+76). That's what I meant. I didn't say Jupp was the only winner ever or that he didn't have fault (that started with favoring Kroos, the Arsenal match etc)
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:06 am

Again nothing particularly directed to you because I agree, as I said winning football doesn't have to (but can) be associated with Jupp's football. Excuse my previous wording if you thought I was asserting against your point, because I wasn't. Some people, however... do think (or at least sound like they think) that going back to Jupp's football was the only way we can win - that's what's not right.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:53 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:I don't know how and don't think winning everything in Barca a proof of his skill, because I never said anything like that. Paraphrasing my first post in plain non-sarcasstic English: a coach of his calibre would be aware of using counter-attacks when the situation calls for it, contrasting claims that he only plays boring football and whenever the team counter-attacks, it's only because Jupp taught us about it back then.

I'm not arguing with you unless I'm correcting something like the misinterpretation of my post as above. Also, 300m my arse.


Didn't think we were argueing, just discussing?
300m might be a little high, but including coman it'S 230... And please do not forget that we got Lewandowski for free... ;)

Offcourse he does... Nobody said he was an amateur, not like he found his license in a Barca airport restroom... I still think we could make use of it a little more often - if the possibility presents itself... But again, I'm actually fine with his style (when working) most of the time - as long as we're talking about offense...

albanian7 wrote:none of us were alive in 1974+76


you sure? :P :D

Dumbledore7 wrote:Some people, however... do think (or at least sound like they think) that going back to Jupp's football was the only way we can win - that's what's not right.


No, that makes no sense to me... I just think - and I MIGHT be wrong - that Jupp drew better conclusions from the many, many, MANY :P mistakes he made and thus changed accordingly and played with small gears every now and then to improve... The one thing I'm sure he handled better was his treatment of the squad... There were few pkayers - if any - that underperformed and were unhappy, like Götze is, Dante was and others might've been...
Also, I don't see too many coaches that would be eligible follow-ups... Still think it would be good if he extended - especially if hos transfers keep turning out to be real steals...

As for the point proving: I know you weren't talking about me, but I DO know that I tend to have a "dramatic" writing style when things don't look so bad for us... But I think everybody saw with Costa that I am well able to admit that I was wrong about something and that is one of the situations where I'm quite happy if it turns out I were... :P :D
So, go ahead Mr. Guardiola, kick my ass, win the treble and prove me wrong!... :P :mrgreen:
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby nm462272 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:56 pm

#12 wrote:What is it with all you Atlantaneans and soccer anyway? Must be cause all your teams suck... :P :D


Who knows 8) the Atlanta teams are terrible though... the only decent one right now is the Atlanta Hawks, and Georgia Tech is usually pretty good for college sports.

I may be living in Atlanta now, but I am originally from New York, and lived in Munich for two years 8)
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:04 pm

Well, I guess you saw the small dots behind it?! :P

I love New York... Think is: the Knicks currently suck, too :P Giants are decent at the most - and I don't like baseball... ;)

But hey, great to have some Americans appreciate the beauty of this game! =D>
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby nm462272 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:30 pm

#12 wrote:Well, I guess you saw the small dots behind it?! :P

I love New York... Think is: the Knicks currently suck, too :P Giants are decent at the most - and I don't like baseball... ;)

But hey, great to have some Americans appreciate the beauty of this game! =D>


I miss New York quite a bit... we are actually trying to move back there now... and then of course, back to Munich in 2-3 years!

Baseball was the sport I grew up with, so I am a NY Yankees fan... they are like the FC Bayern of baseball ;)

Football is really growing in popularity in the US, especially since we have so many immigrants from Latin America 8)
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby kod2600 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:01 pm

Do you guys think Steeven Ribéry has a chance to be promoted to the 1st team and maybe a regular starter in the future? How good is he?
I only hear he scores awesome goals.
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