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2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Fénix » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:40 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:To keep a player like Alaba so backward is a waste of his talent.

He wanted to play more in front, but looks like is going to play one more step back. :D He played a full-back under Jupp, now a LCB. :D
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Reinhart » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:13 pm

Not sure if this has been brought up yet but how about a 4-3-3 with Javi as the holding DM, Thiago and Vidal as the roaming AM and a combination of Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Costa, and Goetze?
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:01 pm

A wise (greedy?) man once said that you cannot have too much of a good thing. In modern football, where the midfielder is treated like a precious metal, the epicentre of football, it’s safe to assume midfielders are a good thing. And boy, do Bayern have a lot of midfielders now.

Standard 4-3-3
Image

looks like a case of ‘best player available’, which it pretty much is. Four-three-three was Bayern’s most used formation last season (per WhoScored). There is obviously several variations of 4-3-3, but we’ll look at the one with a defensive midfielder. It’ll be interesting to see if Javi Martinez even plays in games against weaker opposition at home, as it could be argued a defensive midfielder isn’t needed at all. A player like Götze would arguably be more useful in breaking down a defensive team at the Allianz.Javi Martinez’s role will be interesting this season. He’ll be used in big Champions League games as that added defensive security will be valued against the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona. Martinez’s versatility in playing in defence means he’ll more than likely feature in one way or another. His potential transformation into a centre back that could feature in a three at the back system would be interesting to see.As for Vidal in this formation, his well known box to box role would be almost non-existent. With Bayern’s astute defence, Vidal’s need to track back diminishes in value, and he should concentrate on his attacking efforts. Plus, if Javi Martinez is working behind him, there’s almost no reason to track back. As the mileage builds up on Arturo Vidal, as he turned 28 this summer, he should value his engine more, and try to tone down his efforts.
Thiago is the staple here. He should be a staple in any Bayern Munich side, as long as he’s healthy. Which is a big if, but there’s no doubt he is the future of Bayern’s midfield, his footballing intelligence is enough to leave anyone in awe. Even Guardiola.

4-3-3/4-2-3-1 variation
Image
This is, of course, banking on the fact Götze actually performs this season. There’s no doubt Götze performs best in a central position, but his ability to play from deep is questionable. In all honesty Götze has failed to adapt to a wide position, it’s a whole nother article as to whose fault that is. But if Götze can regain the trust of Guardiola and earn a spot as a #10.

Vidal’s box to box role would be far more emphasised in this formation. With no Martinez Vidal would have to at least track back more than in the previous 4-3-3 variation. But again, even Vidal’s tracking back began diminished at Juventus, as they realised creatively and offensively, he was arguably a better contributor, and his efforts were wasted tracking back. Bayern’s defensive security relaxes the midfield like NO OTHER CLUB in the world.

4-1-4-1
Image
Four-one-four-one was an interesting formation for Bayern last season, and I’m still unsure what it’s actual purpose is. This is the first formation that has even featured Xabi Alonso, which is quite incredible considering the first half of the season he had. The seasoned Spaniard turns 34 in November, and near the end of the season it was apparent he can’t do as much as he used to (see Porto game). It’s a shame to see but it happens to all players.

Possession/control 4-1-4-1
Obviously Bayern control almost every game, but I’m talking about specific possession recycling here. If so, Alonso is the choice. Javi Martinez’s passing range and intelligence is fantastic, but in terms of recycling possession and maintaining it, old man Alonso has the advantage. It will be a beautiful sight.

Defensive/counter-attacking 4-1-4-1
This could potentially be used in away Champions League games. Javi Martinez is the choice due to his defensive abilities, which he is arguably the best in the world at. Javi Martinez’s passing range is still able to start counter attacks and his passing distribution needs no introduction as nothing short of emphatic. Jupp Heynckes purchased Javi Martinez knowing he could potentially be one of the best counter attacking players in the world – and he’s a defensive midfielder!

Complete rotation
Image
Not a bad option for Pokal games and games in which your main starters need rests. Honestly, this almost looks like a Bundesliga team competing for a spot in Europe’s midfield, nope, it’s Bayern’s fringe midfield players.

All in all, it’s incredible the depth Bayern have this season. Hopefully Pierre Højbjerg can gain significant minutes after impressing at Augsburg on loan, hopefully Xabi Alonso can defy father time for another season and put in another impressive performance. Bayern Munich could’ve got away with not even signing Arturo Vidal, but this transfer acts as a warning to the rest of Europe and puts Bayern’s midfield up there with Real and Barcelona’s now.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:10 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:A wise (greedy?) man once said that you cannot have too much of a good thing. In modern football, where the midfielder is treated like a precious metal, the epicentre of football, it’s safe to assume midfielders are a good thing. And boy, do Bayern have a lot of midfielders now.

Standard 4-3-3
Image

looks like a case of ‘best player available’, which it pretty much is. Four-three-three was Bayern’s most used formation last season (per WhoScored). There is obviously several variations of 4-3-3, but we’ll look at the one with a defensive midfielder. It’ll be interesting to see if Javi Martinez even plays in games against weaker opposition at home, as it could be argued a defensive midfielder isn’t needed at all. A player like Götze would arguably be more useful in breaking down a defensive team at the Allianz.Javi Martinez’s role will be interesting this season. He’ll be used in big Champions League games as that added defensive security will be valued against the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona. Martinez’s versatility in playing in defence means he’ll more than likely feature in one way or another. His potential transformation into a centre back that could feature in a three at the back system would be interesting to see.As for Vidal in this formation, his well known box to box role would be almost non-existent. With Bayern’s astute defence, Vidal’s need to track back diminishes in value, and he should concentrate on his attacking efforts. Plus, if Javi Martinez is working behind him, there’s almost no reason to track back. As the mileage builds up on Arturo Vidal, as he turned 28 this summer, he should value his engine more, and try to tone down his efforts.
Thiago is the staple here. He should be a staple in any Bayern Munich side, as long as he’s healthy. Which is a big if, but there’s no doubt he is the future of Bayern’s midfield, his footballing intelligence is enough to leave anyone in awe. Even Guardiola.

4-3-3/4-2-3-1 variation
Image
This is, of course, banking on the fact Götze actually performs this season. There’s no doubt Götze performs best in a central position, but his ability to play from deep is questionable. In all honesty Götze has failed to adapt to a wide position, it’s a whole nother article as to whose fault that is. But if Götze can regain the trust of Guardiola and earn a spot as a #10.

Vidal’s box to box role would be far more emphasised in this formation. With no Martinez Vidal would have to at least track back more than in the previous 4-3-3 variation. But again, even Vidal’s tracking back began diminished at Juventus, as they realised creatively and offensively, he was arguably a better contributor, and his efforts were wasted tracking back. Bayern’s defensive security relaxes the midfield like NO OTHER CLUB in the world.

4-1-4-1
Image
Four-one-four-one was an interesting formation for Bayern last season, and I’m still unsure what it’s actual purpose is. This is the first formation that has even featured Xabi Alonso, which is quite incredible considering the first half of the season he had. The seasoned Spaniard turns 34 in November, and near the end of the season it was apparent he can’t do as much as he used to (see Porto game). It’s a shame to see but it happens to all players.

Possession/control 4-1-4-1
Obviously Bayern control almost every game, but I’m talking about specific possession recycling here. If so, Alonso is the choice. Javi Martinez’s passing range and intelligence is fantastic, but in terms of recycling possession and maintaining it, old man Alonso has the advantage. It will be a beautiful sight.

Defensive/counter-attacking 4-1-4-1
This could potentially be used in away Champions League games. Javi Martinez is the choice due to his defensive abilities, which he is arguably the best in the world at. Javi Martinez’s passing range is still able to start counter attacks and his passing distribution needs no introduction as nothing short of emphatic. Jupp Heynckes purchased Javi Martinez knowing he could potentially be one of the best counter attacking players in the world – and he’s a defensive midfielder!

Complete rotation
Image
Not a bad option for Pokal games and games in which your main starters need rests. Honestly, this almost looks like a Bundesliga team competing for a spot in Europe’s midfield, nope, it’s Bayern’s fringe midfield players.

All in all, it’s incredible the depth Bayern have this season. Hopefully Pierre Højbjerg can gain significant minutes after impressing at Augsburg on loan, hopefully Xabi Alonso can defy father time for another season and put in another impressive performance. Bayern Munich could’ve got away with not even signing Arturo Vidal, but this transfer acts as a warning to the rest of Europe and puts Bayern’s midfield up there with Real and Barcelona’s now.

Guadiola doesn't like pure defensive midfielders. I don't think Javi will ever play there.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Machiavellico » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:18 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Guadiola doesn't like pure defensive midfielders. I don't think Javi will ever play there.


He's not a pure DM. That's what people don't understand about him. He played as a goddamn striker in some matches for Spain. Plus, we've all seen he's good with the ball at his feet. He's exceptional when it comes to defensive abilities, that's why his offensive ones get overlooked.
I'd think that the only reason Pep wants for him to play at the back is because he has(and fully, not partially) what Pep desires in a CB, not because he's an improper DM to his system.

Your second sentence is right, however. Given that there are no new CBs in the team and the season is on the cusp of starting, he'll be used as the third CB(should Pep desire to use it).
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:38 am

You guys have to realise that with Pep, the CDM in 4-3-3 and the middle CB in a 3-defender formation are basically the same thing. That's what Javi's role is.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:33 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:You guys have to realise that with Pep, the CDM in 4-3-3 and the middle CB in a 3-defender formation are basically the same thing. That's what Javi's role is.

Very true sir, very true.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby German-American » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:19 pm

At the beginning of the season last year Alonso was so fricken good. As we know he had a huge "crash" towards the 2nd half of the season....constantly missing passes and just making big mistakes. As a result many =, including me, have been really pissed with him and wanted him to move on from Bayern. As I look at his situation more and more I come to realize that his role is much more substantial at Bayern and he is needed for us. I am expecting him to start the season as he did start the previous one, full of energy and a huge player on the field. In order to preserve his ability throughout the entire season we cannot play him nearly as much. Currently as the most senior and experienced Mid fielder we currently have it's important to keep him integrated as an important figure of the squad. I am sure that we all wouldn't mind him starting 20 max games this season while he is playing close to top notch form. At the same time, this gives youth players such as Kimmich and Hobjerg the ability to start a lot of games and make their presence known. Alonsos expereince is to vaulable for our younger players, especially with Schweinsteiger gone. I recall reading an article mentioning that Alonso will mentor while playing, i guess it can be slightly compared to Man UTD & Grigg's(although he was really a coach in a way, but you know what I mean).
Regardless of where Alonso plays, he cannot play a full season anymore, he needs more time to recuperate and regain fitness.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby RAJBAYERN » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:35 pm

I dont think Alonso "constantly missed passes", he missed some passes as any other bayern player, but some of his wrong passes and interventions finished in huge mistakes, specially in champions league matches that cost us goals, yellow cards and a red card.

It is very logical to consider that his age is a factor of his decline, but also I think that he isnt comfortable playing in Pep system. Pep system is not for everyone.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby German-American » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:21 pm

RAJBAYERN wrote:I dont think Alonso "constantly missed passes", he missed some passes as any other bayern player, but some of his wrong passes and interventions finished in huge mistakes, specially in champions league matches that cost us goals, yellow cards and a red card.

It is very logical to consider that his age is a factor of his decline, but also I think that he isnt comfortable playing in Pep system. Pep system is not for everyone.


I may have over reacted by say constantly but in comparison to the first half he was much worse.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:50 pm

It's quite amazing how in 2012, our bench for the game that didn't happen was Butt, Pranjic, van Buyten, Rafinha, Usami, Petersen and Olic. And this season our bench could be Ulreich, Benatia, Alonso, Badstuber, Ribery, Costa, Götze.
The ideal team

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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby AllensRoten » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:29 pm

Do you guys think a formation like this would be tactically effective given the current form of our players? If so, why? and if not, why?

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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:27 pm

Well we're not likely to ever see that, but it's good. Perhaps lacking defensive support a bit and since you put Gotze as the orchestrator, he needs to perform. Lack of Lahm is disconcerting but we'll have to deal with that sooner than later anyway. The formation as it is is very good and promises a very fluid attack, but on current form Thiago should take Gotze's place and Javi or Lahm (also Alonso but well) could be next to Vidal.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:31 pm

I don't like that Lahm suddenly decided that he gets to choose what position he plays. If he's not going to play on the wing, then he should stay on the bench. This is probably the worst thing Pep brought.
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Re: 2015/16 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:37 pm

I wrote a wee article on Pep's likely system for the season to come.

(it was written before the Wolfsburg match, but I maintain that Alonso, once Thiago, Vidal, Martinez are fully fit and integrated, will no longer be a starting player)
The ideal team

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