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2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:26 pm

Achilles wrote:If someone is surfing around internet about Bayern tactics and all these issues or gives a glance at bayernforum.com he will get the idea that Bayern will play 3-4-3 formation or any 3-man defense formation next year,I've expressed already my favor for this system but is actually in Pep's mind(?) or we're speculating? Badger provide some infos,DFB-final is there,some (failed)expirements at friendlies were shown with 3-man defense but really,how much do you think that this formation is realistic?

I think it is Pep's dream to create a team that goes down in history, but which is unique. One could say that he did that with Barca, but I think he wants to go further. Winning everything with a 3-4-3 formation, and using a 3-4-3 in a possession-oriented rather than a counterattacking team, sort of does that.

I think the 3-4-3 fits our players well, I've been saying so since I watched Napoli using it 2-3 years ago. We need some transfers in defence, but that's just about it. Our squad is now at a point where our CAM (Kroos) is better as a CM, and our other players who have been used in that position (Gotze, Muller, Shaqiri) all play better on the wings. The only one who I think might not fit in is Thiago.

Is it a realistic formation? I would say it is, not only because of the reasons you mentioned and because I believe it fits the team, but because Pep has been experimenting with it since 2012. I remember him trying it out (to bad results) in his last few months for Barcelona. I think he is determined to make it work.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:15 pm

The best thing of this 3-4-3 we played in the DFB Pokal final is that we were missing some key players. Our fullbacks were Hojbjerg and Rafinha (left wing).

With Thiago, Alaba and Lahm it will be much better =P~
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Badger » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:57 pm

Achilles wrote:If someone is surfing around internet about Bayern tactics and all these issues or gives a glance at bayernforum.com he will get the idea that Bayern will play 3-4-3 formation or any 3-man defense formation next year,I've expressed already my favor for this system but is actually in Pep's mind(?) or we're speculating? Badger provide some infos,DFB-final is there,some (failed)expirements at friendlies were shown with 3-man defense but really,how much do you think that this formation is realistic?


Well, I have watched all Bayern's competitive games this season, except two BL games which I recorded during a holiday in May, and will watch sometime during the summer, and I've seen virtually all the friendlies, Audi Cup, Telekom Cup, etc. In that period I have only seen a clear 3-4-3 used twice. The second was the German Cup final. The first was the last friendly in January 2014, played against Salzburg in Austria. Here's a link to the Bayern Forum thread for for the match. (I see that I wrote at length about it on the last page of the thread.)
https://www.bayernforum.com/friendlies-f7/fc-salzburg-vs-bayern-munich-t10996-75.html

Many were asking why we didn't have a better oponent for the last friendly; they didn't say that after the game. Anyway, Guardiola clearly had something in mind when he used that key friendly for such an experiment. I speculate that he was begining to fear that Bayern wouldn't master 4-1-4-1 and some major games later in the season would need a more robust alternative. The experiment was really a failure and, looking back, I'm now inclined to regret that it was. Guardiola totally shelved 3-4-3, chosing to revert to 4-2-3-1 at times, and we saw that Bayern seem to have forgotten how to play 4-2-3-1, producing almost all their worst results of the season with that formation. If 3-4-3 had succeeded in Salzburg, it may have become the formation of choice against stronger teams (4-1-4-1 still being played against weaker teams), and results may have been a lot better. We'll never know, but if 3-4-3 is used next season and serves well, it might be reasonable to guess that it could have produced better results last season too.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:36 pm

3-ATB has huge potential. If it's executed right we'll win CL next year. 8) 8)

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:26 pm

The three-man attack isn't a foreign concept, y'know, italian teams have been using the tridente for decades. Personally I absolutely love it, for tactical-romantical reasons (read: for no actual reason).
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Badger » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:07 pm

quaazi wrote:The three-man attack isn't a foreign concept, y'know, italian teams have been using the tridente for decades. Personally I absolutely love it, for tactical-romantical reasons (read: for no actual reason).


Was that meant to read "three-man defence"? I assume so. And, yes, I agree that it's not new, and the Italians have made quite a success out of it at times.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:22 pm

I just posted a long analysis on the 3-4-3 and also why I think it will be innovative, even though three-man defences have been used for a long time, but I accidentally refreshed and lost the entire post. #-o I will post it later if I feel like typing it out again.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Badger » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:29 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I just posted a long analysis on the 3-4-3 and also why I think it will be innovative, even though three-man defences have been used for a long time, but I accidentally refreshed and lost the entire post. #-o I will post it later if I feel like typing it out again.


Please do post it again - maybe in a day or two, if you have had enough of typing for today. It may take me a few days to respond, but I almost certainly will reply to many of your points. I'm convinced that we are so likely to see more of Bayern's playing 3-4-3 in the coming season that I'm enthusiastic about discussing it now.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:33 pm

Badger wrote:Please do post it again - maybe in a day or two, if you have had enough of typing for today. It may take me a few days to respond, but I almost certainly will reply to many of your points. I'm convinced that we are so likely to see more of Bayern's playing 3-4-3 in the coming season that I'm enthusiastic about discussing it now.

I'd have reposted it immediately, but at the moment I am doing exams so I need to study and also I have handwritten enough essays over the past few days to justify not wanting to write it out again right now. ;)

It'll be up eventually. :)
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:53 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Badger wrote:Please do post it again - maybe in a day or two, if you have had enough of typing for today. It may take me a few days to respond, but I almost certainly will reply to many of your points. I'm convinced that we are so likely to see more of Bayern's playing 3-4-3 in the coming season that I'm enthusiastic about discussing it now.

I'd have reposted it immediately, but at the moment I am doing exams so I need to study and also I have handwritten enough essays over the past few days to justify not wanting to write it out again right now. ;)

It'll be up eventually. :)


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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:24 pm

Badger wrote:
Was that meant to read "three-man defence"? I assume so. And, yes, I agree that it's not new, and the Italians have made quite a success out of it at times.

Nope, attack. A three-man attacking system in which all three players are interchangable. It works in a 4-3-3 system as well, and usually lacks a designated playmaker (as the midfield behind them is more oriented towards physical play).
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:49 pm

quaazi wrote:
Badger wrote:
Was that meant to read "three-man defence"? I assume so. And, yes, I agree that it's not new, and the Italians have made quite a success out of it at times.

Nope, attack. A three-man attacking system in which all three players are interchangable. It works in a 4-3-3 system as well, and usually lacks a designated playmaker (as the midfield behind them is more oriented towards physical play).


We'd have that with Götze and Thiago, no ?
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:14 pm

Yeah, it is a slightly different style that Pep's trying to cultivate, but then again, the italians were never keen on hoarding possession like Guardiola, now were they? :P
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Bazi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:19 pm

I wonder if Alaba would be good enough defensively to be the LCB in this 3-4-3. He's quick as hell with great recovery skills, great aerial abilities and his distribution is also very good.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:25 pm

Another thing - the 3-4-3 might be the only formation in which a midfield pair of only Kroos and Thiago could work out. In this type of formation, coupled with the intensive pressing style on the forwards and aerial ability and intercepting of the three centerbacks, they would not be exposed to runners with the ball or intricate passing games nearly as often as the seemingly more solid midfield triangle of the 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 systems. It seems almost as if the attack/defense balance of Pep Guardiola's football could be divided into a floor/air balance - when the ball is on the floor, his team is attacking, losing the ball should ideally be followed by quickly forcing the opponent into using their air as the only attacking option, after which it would be neutralized by the 3 tall guys at the back, either heading the ball to the goalkeeper or their defensive partners (of which there are 3 options of) or the midfield line of 4 (again, a far better array of options than in the 4-man defense systems) that have tracked back by then, unburdened with marking an opponent or partaking in the high press itself. Having two players with the best first touch in the team (possibly the duo of Thiago and Kroos), they could quickly take control of the chaotic headed ball and initiate another attacking move.
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