You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby RAJBAYERN » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:56 am

Firefox1234 wrote:I feel like people here forget how defensively stout Bayern is. We may have a flashy front four but in the back(since LvG)no one can touch us


I understand people fear . Guardiola know that the debacle against Madrid were the defensive air plays, so people that reminds about this, and about Atletico and Chelsea, do not forget about Sergio Ramos. This son of a ...

At least having Neuer can save us in this weakness, He always shows security against these plays.

I believe that Bayern will improve in this area, but I dislike about their perfomance in offensive corners. Too many chances, 0 goals. #-o
Super-Bayern! Super-Bayern! Hey! Hey!


DANKE JUPP!
User avatar
RAJBAYERN
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1691
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Panamá
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 525 times
Been thanked: 485 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Kalev » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:20 am

Pep's plan B when a player is sent off. Excellent positsioning

Image
User avatar
Kalev
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:16 pm
Location: Springfield
National Flag:
Anonymous
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 219 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby runaway » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:30 am

Indeed the defense held and was only beaten via a set piece. But the attack wasn't as decisive as it could be. I thought Dante's sub was not that really necessary (not because of his quality) but we needed more firepower to break that 5 man line. I guess Benatia hasn't played as a central CB in a trident yet and Guardiola relied more on the wingbacks to attack. 2nd time we're down to 10 men and yet we didn't particularly looked like it.
“If players weren’t human, I’d never lose.” ~El Loco
User avatar
runaway
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 am
National Flag:
Philippines
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 1009 times

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Kevinx67 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:26 am

It's funny how much people think Pep is a Genius. He's far from it. Of course playing one man down Bayern will keep possession. They make 2 yard passes between them passing the ball back to the keeper in record numbers. Very boring when ever playing one man down or not. If Wolfsburg could figure out you harass Xavi Alonso and pass the ball over the top how is Bayern going to handle teams like Chelsea or Real Madrid that will rip Bayern high defensive line. Even the game this weekend against Stuttgart They only won cause of the individual talent of Robbin and Alaba. One point in the game Bayern had 68% possession of the game but shots on goal were even at 2. Now you know why Pep never went to England to coach. His game plan would be ripped apart by the English way of playing over the top. At This point do you really think Bayern could beat Man City? Bayern are just to predictable and relying on the talent of players like Robben to win games. I hope you don't feel this style of play is an improvement over the style of the treble winning team.
Kevinx67
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:59 pm
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby runaway » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:15 am

Great teams all have the same characteristic of wanting to control the pitch and the ball – Arrigo Sacchi.

No doubt there are multiple ways of defining both sides of this idea.

Controlling the ball is usually represented by possession, that is the proportion of the passes that a team plays in a single match or series of matches. If a team has the ball, then by definition, they are controlling it.

One way of defining the control of space is to think about ball possession in relation to the location of the ball on the pitch. A team that routinely possesses the ball closer to their opponents goal potentially benefits from the increased attacking opportunities that this provides, while also benefiting from the ball being far away from their own goal should they lose it.

When people talk about possession football as pointless, it always confuses me. Yes, passing the ball around without intention to attack can be pointless but the philosophy of possession football itself is hardly nonsense. The game is 90 minutes we can't expect the teams to run and run and run and shoot. The ball still moves faster than the players and for the ball to move, it's needs to be passed.

People always cite the way Spain and Barca after Pep as the main points against 'tiki-taka' or possession football when there are nuances to how they are used. Let's get this clear, there are different intentions of keeping the ball.

1) Inevitable possession. When you're the better and stronger team, it's inevitable that the team keeps possession. The quality of the team just makes it easier for them to retrieve the ball against a weaker side even one that's attuned to possession football. We see this often against RM. Spain is possession football country and most of their teams can keep the ball on their day but against RM, RM still wins the possession especially with Mourinho gone. Even Chelsea against a weaker opponent dominates possession because SOMEONE needs to decide to play football than stay in their own box and wait for a chance to counter.

2) Easy passes as platform for counterattack. There are teams like Ausburg and Swansea that pass the ball around their own half where it is easy to keep possession then try to counterattack.

3) Domination and control of the game. And then there are teams that want to keep as much of the ball as possible to maintain control of the game and dominate their opponents. It's nothing new at Bayern and why this keeps being brought up as if it's Guardiola's fault that we're playing possession football is ridiculous.

4) Possession as defense mechanism. There are also teams who hold the ball when they're winning with little intention of attacking. Barca often does this when they're winning, passing around in that dreaded U-pattern. Spain NT is known for this.

(spielverlagerung.de has a much better explanation of this but their site appears to be down)

Kevinx67 wrote:They only won cause of the individual talent of Robbin and Alaba.

Forgetting it was Mueller's substitution that changed the momentum of the game enabling more quality attacks to be created and Alaba moving to the LCB spot that made the attack much better and the defense more stable. It was literally Mueller's movement that confused Ulreich to change his position at the last minute.

The high defensive line will always be a concern and Guardiola needs to make adjustments for it when the time comes for a crucial game (hopefully the best players are available and healthy) because it was a weakness we compromised for the other benefits we gained from it like more number of players for attack or Boateng's (or the CBs) ability to contribute in attack with his laser long balls. And it needs the very best defenders to work. Boateng in good form as well as Benatia even the much maligned Dante. Added defensive players on the pitch like Lahm also helps the high line to work best. And Neuer doing his thing (which we have not seen for a while since the restart.:( )

Is this better than how we played last season? By miles. Yes, we are in a slump since the restart but the first half of the season saw much better movement of the ball, much better quality and variety in attack and the absence of the U passing. How people are declaring this slump in form as indicative that we'll lose every important match against a big team is bit superficial. Wolfsburg burned us on counterattacks and we didn't help ourselves with bad finishing. Real Madrid burned us on set pieces and we didn't help ourselves with not finishing the numerous chances we created.

The team that solves the bus tactic will be a miracle worker. Not one team has destroyed a quality bus parked. Atleti? No. Chelsea? No. Barca won over Atleti when they decided not to play football anymore and let their tempers get the better of them as well as a sprinkle of Messi's brilliance. Real Madrid, with it's most expensive squad can't get a shot on target against when Atleti's compact defense is on a great day or handle the counter attack.

One way that's been effective is park the bus too. Two bus parkers playing, someone's gotta blink and decide to play with the ball. Would that be acceptable for Bayern? Playing like Stoke and Costa Rica? And pat our backs for points like Chelsea fans with 'results are what matters and defending with 10 men in the box isn't easy.'

Kevinx67 wrote:His game plan would be ripped apart by the English way of playing over the top. At This point do you really think Bayern could beat Man City?

That City team that only won via gifts and our own players' mistake? Or the Arsenal and United that beat Bayern last season? Oh wait... The English way of playing that hasn't been successful in Europe for years? Scary. :coffee: If anything, it's the Bundesliga that is faster and more counter attacking oriented and we're doing fine.

Kevinx67 wrote:Bayern are just to predictable and relying on the talent of players like Robben to win games.

Is there a team that doesn't rely on their in-form players to win the games? Has Robben even been stopped for being predictable? :lol:

~
The pessimism here lately is outstanding -- against the players, against the manager, and against the team. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticisms and objective judgements but saying, "we'll never win against RM..." is just a self-fulfilling prophecy waiting to happen and when it happens, people will be like: "Told you so. I was right." As cuckoo new age stuff are, 'Mind over matter' happens and a bit of positive thoughts and a bit of faith won't be a bad thing.

Spoiler: show
But then again, when you hate it, you hate it. And there will be others that will love the day Guardiola leaves Bayern -- preferably without any (further) silverware so they can take their money to the bank and say they were right that Guardiola is crap and the majority are idiots for believing his Barca achievements while praying the day Don Heynckes returns for another treble. Just one more year of Pep! Hold on guys. :coffee:
“If players weren’t human, I’d never lose.” ~El Loco
User avatar
runaway
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 am
National Flag:
Philippines
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 1009 times

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Tedesco » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:11 am

Great post Runaway!

It is a bit sad how toxic this place has been lately. The hate towards Pep/Götze/Lewa/Dante/etc has been incredibly high.
Criticizing performances is fine and we as fans should do it, but the Witch Hunting has to stop.
User avatar
Tedesco
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:21 am
Location: Karlsruhe
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 200 times
Been thanked: 764 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:10 pm

Tedesco wrote:Great post Runaway!

It is a bit sad how toxic this place has been lately. The hate towards Pep/Götze/Lewa/Dante/etc has been incredibly high.
Criticizing performances is fine and we as fans should do it, but the Witch Hunting has to stop.


It is not hate... it is criticism ... and frustration.
knowing their potential (Goetze & Lewa) and their past performances with BVB you one just feels :evil:
So what is wrong with them? * their team mates? , the coach's system? , the environment?, different pressures/objectives from those at BVB?... :?
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 47678
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 31869 times
Been thanked: 6896 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Korab » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:14 pm

I love only 3 concepts of Guardiola system:
1. Absolute perfection in ball handling, tight spaces, accuracy of passes
2. You have to suppress any possible counter attack on the half of the opponent,
3. Universality of players
What I hate:
1. Waiting for opponents mistakes to score, better to pass safely than to play fast through ball to create goal scoring opportunity,
2. Killing players individuality, scarified on the tread mill of boring, grinding suppression of opponent resistance, not very successful with better teams,
3. It’s so predictable, you always know how the game will look like regardless of score (it can be big time against Bayern and still continued)
4. There is no more beautiful flow of action from defense to attack, just relentless build-up of siege. Medieval influence of Spanish military experiences.
Korab
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:45 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 89 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Bavarians » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:56 am

Compare the evolution of Bayern in the last three years. Since Jupp Heynckes to this second season of Guardiola. The values ​​are calculated per game. The Jupp team hits the Pep's across the board. Attack score ... Defence score ... And ... if Amaze! ... Possession score

Image

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix
MIA SAN MIA @ Deutscher Meister

http://www.fantasybundes.com/en/my-team

Image
User avatar
Bavarians
Woah, this feels cool!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:55 am
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
National Flag:
Portugal
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:05 pm

with apologies to Rafinha and Bernat...if or when we have
everyone back... 3-3-1-3 aka 3-4-3 should be the tactic used. B.B.B as cbs... Lahm Martinez Alaba before them; Thiago/basti playmaker; Robben Lewa, Ribery or Mueller
Sent from my GT-S6802 using Tapatalk 2
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 47678
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 31869 times
Been thanked: 6896 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby sherpthederp » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:54 pm

I would really love to see a diamond 3-4-3 with Benatia Boateng Badstuber in the rear
Lahm Schweini Müller and Alaba with Schweini building up Müller floating around and Robben Lewa and Ribs up front.
Martinez can rotate for the center CB spot and Thiago and Götze can rotate with Schweini and Müller
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
sherpthederp
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2120
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:40 pm
Location: Tacoma, Washington
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 1044 times
Been thanked: 1510 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:30 pm

Bavarians wrote:Compare the evolution of Bayern in the last three years. Since Jupp Heynckes to this second season of Guardiola. The values ​​are calculated per game. The Jupp team hits the Pep's across the board. Attack score ... Defence score ... And ... if Amaze! ... Possession score

Image

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix


I'm a bit confused by the scores for 2012/13 and 13/14. Yes, we scored slightly more and conceded slightly less in 12/13 but the defence scores make it look like a huge difference when it was only 5 goals.
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 40063
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 13506 times
Been thanked: 10661 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby runaway » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:11 am

That's because these scores tracks the number of defensive and offensive actions. What are they going to count when the defense is tested very sparingly in the two seasons? Same goes for the attack, there are very little take-ons, dribbles, etc when 90% of the team's time is spent near the box of the opponent.

I'm all for use of statistics and analytics but flashing numbers with very little context and analysis is an example that appreciation of stats in football is still a long way to go.

As in the book The Numbers Game, 90% of what happens in the pitch is not yet covered by any stat yet. Only those related to the ball can be counted and a player spends only a small part of the 90 minutes with the ball.

via Tapatalk
“If players weren’t human, I’d never lose.” ~El Loco
User avatar
runaway
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3850
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 am
National Flag:
Philippines
Has thanked: 402 times
Been thanked: 1009 times

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Korab » Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:34 pm

I’m not totally against Pep tactics at all, there are many elements of it which I like. What I have against Guardiola is that Bayern completely lost ability to mount fast attack from its half. Just look what happens when Bayern gets the ball on its half, always long, protracted build-up moving slowly forward pushing opponents to defense in their own 1/3. And we complain about parked bus? They don’t have any other choice, sorry, they have alternative – they can start to defend higher on the field, and more and more teams are using it with success. Seem like Guardiola haven't found the panacea for it in result Bayern straggles to score.
Korab
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:45 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 89 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:34 pm

I've noticed that... (even HSV were doing it before the penalty incident)
Teams are trying to keep ball possession in their own half knowing the we will pressure them even in their penalty are and when they feel cornered they try that famous long ball in hope that our defenders are wrong footed and their main striker goes free on goal. Or else they put long balls on the wings behind our ultra-attacking wing - backs.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 47678
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 31869 times
Been thanked: 6896 times
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to General Bayern Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests