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2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Badger » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:41 pm

I'm still sticking with Goetze and Lewandowski.

In a season (half-season actually) when Bayern have broken several of their incredibly high records, I'm a little disappointed about the levels of criticism Goetze and Lewandowski have received from Bayern fans at times. I suppose I'm referring partly to the transfer threads, where some were suggesting buying alternatives to these players.

One unfortunate by-product of Guardiola's high-possession tactics is the compression of the whole opposing team into an area around their own penalty box. Yes, there'll always be park-the-bus teams anyway, but this is also happing to other more open teams as well. The result is the same: Bayern need to play through crowded defences.

There is no single tactic that defeats that repeatedly; it requires varied tactics, and the goals are therefore likely to come from a variety of players, rather than largely from 1-2 key players. Some of those tactics involve close ball skills, vision and quick thinking in and around the box, and that's where I still think that Goetze and Lewandowski are among the world's best. Their lower number of goals than in their seasons with Dortmund is not particularly surprising, in view of the different systems in the two clubs, and is no great concern.

As I stated in the beginning, I'm still 100% behind having them in those positions for Bayern.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby runaway » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:14 pm

Apart from Lewandowski's missed chances when he's right in front of goal, I'm quite satisfied with both of them. Goetze is a type of player that just appears out of nowhere like when Alonso lofts the ball and he's just appears and receives the ball. He'll move to spaces, doing 1-2s but he's not a player like Robben who will always be involved. In some ways, Mueller and him are quite similar; most of the time we don't notice them unless they're on the ball.

We know in Perarnau's book that Guardiola would like Goetze to improve his positioning and there are moments caught in camera during matches where Guardiola talks to him as if instructing him what to do.

Spielverlagerung.com has another brilliant (and long ass) article. This time about Bayern's Juego de Posicion (positional play)
In Bayern Munich, Guardiola has promoted the Positional Play that Louis van Gaal introduced five years ago. But the one Bayern is practicing right now is a game that is much more oriented to a vertical axis than a horizontal one and this version requires a high degree of technical excellence because it seeks to construct the above mentioned superiorities not based on horizontal but vertical passes. This is an extremely ambitious interpretation of Positional Play.” —Marti Perarnau

Neuer must have taken this to heart... Uhhhmmm, he was talking about the center forward Manuel! :lol:
Another interesting aspect of Guardiola’s teams was the use of a “False 9,” a player who is the center forward, but does not occupy the center forward position at all. An interesting quote by Guardiola perfectly summarizes his views on this style of play:

“Everyone is allowed to move into the box, but none are allowed to stand in it.” —Pep Guardiola

Possession of the ball psychologically frustrates the opponents because they cannot do what they want to do. Continuity and flow of possession for a long duration does bring a sense of control. But possession is merely a consequence of the offensive game of Pep Guardiola and his principles.

Possession is not the goal, though the possession of the ball provides the innate defensive aspect that one team has the ball and the opponents cannot score because they don’t. Scoring goals, defending, and keeping possession are consequences of this philosophy of play, not the focus. The focus is to play good football and to win by doing so. Pep Guardiola wants to win in any way possible, but he believes this is the very best way to win.

We average 70% possession now, quite a drop from last season's 80%-90%.
Spoiler: show
I guess the 10%-20% were Kroos' backpasses and sidepasses. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:19 pm

I was sticking with Goetze throughout the WC, when people simply could not stand watch him play... and I was happy that he scored that goal in the final and told people "See, this is Goetze", finally had an argument to defend him.

Loew benched Goetze, I can't say now it wasn't a smart move.

Goetze will cost to Pep his head if he continues underperforming. If there's a player that will cost Pep dearly, it will be Goetze. I don't know who is pushing for a Goetze in the starting 11, him or Sammer, maybe both... because he isn't deserving it.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Korab » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:15 pm

JANCKER wrote:I was sticking with Goetze throughout the WC, when people simply could not stand watch him play... and I was happy that he scored that goal in the final and told people "See, this is Goetze", finally had an argument to defend him.

Loew benched Goetze, I can't say now it wasn't a smart move.

Goetze will cost to Pep his head if he continues underperforming. If there's a player that will cost Pep dearly, it will be Goetze. I don't know who is pushing for a Goetze in the starting 11, him or Sammer, maybe both... because he isn't deserving it.

I agree, Goetze and Lewa should be sold, there are plenty of players to substitute them. Dzeko, Sterling, Rooney, Falcao, Isco and so on. Good idea and it won't cause any problem for Pep.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:18 pm

Here you are Korab again as usually... do you have anything new to say? I guessed so...
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Korab » Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:22 pm

JANCKER wrote:Here you are Korab again as usually... do you have anything new to say? I guessed so...

Wasn't it innovative enough for you? Yes, I have something for you let's get Mandzu back! Is it good?
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:10 pm

What are you people talking about? Götze had 1 or 2 invisible games at the end of the hinrunde, but otherwise he was playing very well... He was our top goal-scorer for some time FFS! His dribbling and passing have been good too.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby pyrasur » Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:31 am

I'm not blown away by Götze but he has not been bad. With him I know there is someone who can make the difference in a tight game. Robben has it but you know when he is on the ball to expect something. You can see the will to win. With Götze you just don't see it coming because he is quiet, but he can do something with no space. It's just an expectation gap with Mario because he is sold as the German Messi.

Everyone is expecting the four goal Lewa as well, but like Borusse said that wasn't Robert every game. Lewa missed plenty too. They both have the potential to play better, but the potential is worth it for me, because in the very tight games they make a difference. Still I think they struggle a little because they used to play in teams that enabled their individual brilliance, whereas Bayern asks a lot of discipline that restricts them a bit, but makes the whole team deadly.

Honestly, of our stars Ribery lately frustrates me the most, but he just came back and I love him so I forgive him.

PS I said their previous teams enabled them , but I guess i should have said team. Sorry Borusse :mrgreen:
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby krkla » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:44 pm

Bild has predicted the core 11 Bayern players in 5 years. Somewhat interesting. Also claiming Højbjerg to be the next Schweinsteiger, Gaudino the next Alonso and Kimmich the next Lahm. Fingers crossed those predictions turn out to be true :pep:

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby runaway » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:51 pm

Lol they really miss their mole. Where is Alaba? wtf

Gaudino, the next Alonso? Højbjerg is more in the mold of Alonso but he needs to improve his long ball accuracy.

We're not even sure about Ødegaard.

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MatZam » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:52 pm

Where's Alaba? :?
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:32 pm

MatZam wrote:Where's Alaba? :?


In RM dreams...
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Bomber_der_Nation » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:12 pm

krkla wrote:Bild has predicted the core 11 Bayern players in 5 years. Somewhat interesting. Also claiming Højbjerg to be the next Schweinsteiger, Gaudino the next Alonso and Kimmich the next Lahm. Fingers crossed those predictions turn out to be true :pep:

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That's a fun though minus Alaba missing.
5 years is maybe a bit much, but I do wonder which of the young players will still be with us in 3 years time (Green, Højbjerg, Gaudino, Kurt, Kimmich).
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby sherpthederp » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:29 pm

Rode is missing as well, I have a feeling he will be a long term key player.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby krkla » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:46 pm

runaway wrote:We're not even sure about Ødegaard.


Apparently bild knows something we don't or have way to much faith in a magic 8-ball.
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