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2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 20, 2014 1:26 pm

Everyone who has been here for a long time knows that I am a big fan of the 3-4-3. I have said we have the players for it for a very long time (some 2 years I think) but now that it is looking like a possibility I am doubtful whether or not it is the best formation for us. Schweinsteiger and Kroos are great CMs in the formation, but even though Martinez is there behind him, I am still uncomfortable with the ide of not having a purely defensive player in midfield. I am also not sure that Thiago will shine in such a formation.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue May 20, 2014 1:36 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Everyone who has been here for a long time knows that I am a big fan of the 3-4-3. I have said we have the players for it for a very long time (some 2 years I think) but now that it is looking like a possibility I am doubtful whether or not it is the best formation for us. Schweinsteiger and Kroos are great CMs in the formation, but even though Martinez is there behind him, I am still uncomfortable with the ide of not having a purely defensive player in midfield. I am also not sure that Thiago will shine in such a formation.

I think Thiago will be fine in this formation cause he will have freedom to attack the box while Kroos or Schweinstiger will most likely take the deeper role in the midfield when they are paired with him. Pep essentially wants one CM playing deep in the midfield to instigate the attacks and one further up the pitch to bring the ball forward. I think Thiago can play either role but is probably more effective as the CM further up the pitch attacking the box.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 20, 2014 1:37 pm

Badger wrote:And, to attempt to write something on-topic, can I ask someone point me to the thread where there was a request for survey questions? Somewhere there I offered a question about 4-1-4-1 becoming a formation with 3 at the back in future, and I'd like to find it and elaborate on it here.

That topic seems to have disappeared, which is why I haven't set a question up for this month. There also wasn't much response, with mostly only Firefox suggesting ideas.

I'm not sure whether or not to set it up again. Perhaps we can just have an occasional poll on the blog rather than a monthly one.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Tue May 20, 2014 1:42 pm

In regards to the Dortmund game, my post from May 5th...

Stick Robben into the striker slot.

Hey, it could work!
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 20, 2014 1:45 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:I think Thiago will be fine in this formation cause he will have freedom to attack the box while Kroos or Schweinstiger will most likely take the deeper role in the midfield when they are paired with him. Pep essentially wants one CM playing deep in the midfield to instigate the attacks and one further up the pitch to bring the ball forward. I think Thiago can play either role but is probably more effective as the CM further up the pitch attacking the box.

I think that we'd need either 2 CMs who are good offensively and defensively, or a CM and a DM. A balanced CM with an offensive one seems unbalanced to me.

If we are to put Thiago in CM then I think his partner needs to be either Martinez or Lahm. If we put Lahm we face a problem on the wing. Hojbjerg did a pretty good job in that position on Saturday... maybe we will see him around more often than expected?

Realistically speaking I think we will for a lineup like this with that formation (excluding new transfers):

Muller, Shaqiri, and Ribery can fit in very well as subs but I'm still seeing a problem with Thiago. Maybe I am wrong.

A perfect transfer for this formation would be Vidal.

EDIT: Heck Rode could fit in very nicely in midfield. I almost forgot him. He has the necessary skills for a box-to-box player.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Badger » Tue May 20, 2014 2:14 pm

I had wondered about 3-4-3 as a natural progression for Pep from 4-1-4-1. Then Bayern played Salzburg in January, using 3 defenders at the back, and were well and truly outplayed, eventually going down a deserved 3-0. The experiment ended there and then, but I felt that it might be revived sometime. I certainly didn’t think that the German Cup final would be the place, or that it would return with a good level of success.

Now I think that we should expect to see more of it. I credit Guardiola with the honesty and guts to recognise that 4-1-4-1 isn’t perfect for Bayern. 3-4-3 brings many advantages and stands a good chance of working. The three central defenders – Boateng-Martinez-Dante – are looking more solid than the Bayern defence has for a long time. The team still has an overload in midfield, and should still be able to maintain Guardiola’s preferred levels of possession. Martinez was looking like a misfit in both defensive midfield and in central defence, and now he is not only utilized, but is also outstanding once again. 3-4-3 has one row less than 4-1-4-1, so the opposition has fewer spaces to exploit. And it shouldn’t be that much of a change. The right back and left back of 4-1-4-1 often played in a more advance role than the “4” would imply, and the lone defensive midfielder would often drop back between the two central defenders. It is a small thing to simply do more of that and have a 3-4-3. And there’ll be enough creativity from Kroos/Schweinsteiger/Thiago in the centre of the midfield, that it doesn’t matter if Martinez doesn’t create much from the back.

Here is a possible formation:

(No, I don’t like leaving out Goetze, Schweinsteiger, Shaqiri, Hojbjerg or Mueller, too. That’s where Pep’s rotation comes in.)

No, it doesn’t solve all Bayern’s tactical problems at the highest level, but I think it goes a long way with several of the major ones. I liked the 4-1-4-1 experiment and am now all for switching that to 3-4-3.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue May 20, 2014 2:27 pm



OK, just trying to make a young formation :)
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby tflags » Tue May 20, 2014 2:32 pm

quaazi wrote:In regards to the Dortmund game, my post from May 5th...

Stick Robben into the striker slot.

Hey, it could work!


Oh please, that was a game vs Dortmund. He could have scored even if he was replacing Neuer.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 20, 2014 3:15 pm

In the end we must not rush based on just one good result though. The formation could still fail.

Question: what happens when Martinez is out? Who will play the sweeper role then?

I was thinking of Badstuber.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MoFattal » Tue May 20, 2014 3:16 pm

David Luiz :dante:
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue May 20, 2014 5:30 pm

MoFattal wrote:David Luiz :dante:

That would make the most sense tbh, even though he is a misfit as a CB in a 4 in the back formation he would be the type of sweeper this system needs if Martinez was ever out injured.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 20, 2014 10:04 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:That would make the most sense tbh, even though he is a misfit as a CB in a 4 in the back formation he would be the type of sweeper this system needs if Martinez was ever out injured.

In what world will it make sense that we buy David Luiz and he is not playing anyway when Martinez is fit? :P
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue May 20, 2014 10:15 pm

We might use that 3 men defense only vs teams like BVB fast dangerous attacking teams ; otherwise we'll play a 4-3-3 or the 4-1-4-1
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue May 20, 2014 10:15 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:That would make the most sense tbh, even though he is a misfit as a CB in a 4 in the back formation he would be the type of sweeper this system needs if Martinez was ever out injured.

In what world will it make sense that we buy David Luiz and he is not playing anyway when Martinez is fit? :P

I agree the price is outrageous just to add depth but the idea makes sense and thats what I am pointing out
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 20, 2014 10:19 pm

ramsej84 wrote:We might use that 3 men defense only vs teams like BVB fast dangerous attacking teams ; otherwise we'll play a 4-3-3 or the 4-1-4-1

I think so too.
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