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2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby endrity » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:02 pm

bastos80 wrote:
endrity wrote:
bastos80 wrote:Javi found his place in the team and tears his ACL...Typical.


Javi has found no place in Pep's team yet. He's a horrible CB and always has been, going back to his Bilbao days. It's only the stupidity of a man that insists on having defenders whose main task should be to play the ball, which puts him there.

I really think the board needs to take a deep look at what Pep is doing. I find his idea beyond ridiculous. I think he won too much too soon at Barca and is convinced that he can and should reinvent the wheel. How else can you explain a decision to play 3 at the back when most teams do it only when they don't have enough good players for the wings?

But if the board believes that Pep's ideas are indeed correct than they should rebuild the team. They should go out and buy true CBs to play 3 at the back. They should go and find proper wing-backs, muscular, athletic types that can cover the whole wing by themselves such as Alaba can. And they need to sell Javi, Schweini, Muller, Rode. These players most likely are not what Pep thinks of when he designs a midfield.

If the board believes, as I do, that such moves are utter craziness than really what is the point of insisting with Pep at this point? For all I care he can go somewhere else to continue his life-long search for "perfect football" or whatever he dreams of. Give me Klopp and his "simple football is best" philosophy any day.


Stopped reading there. Sorry man, this is bollocks.


Well it is, sorry to burst your bubble. He got torn apart by Falcao when he played there during the final of the Europa League three years ago which I saw with my own eyes. And I have read more than a few Bilbao fans on various forums admit that they never rated him much as a CB but only as a CM. Plus I've seen him at Bayern more than enough to know he has major weaknesses.
Javi is a big bully, someone that likes to punish physically smaller midfield players like he did v. Barca or even Gundogan, Pirlo, Marchisio etc. But as soon as a Negredo, Lewandowski type of CF puts his back onto him and starts pushing him around, Javi doesn't know how to react. And he has horrible positioning because he is trying to be hyperactive all the time and chase every ball.

Now all of this is not bad. It's these exact qualities that make him a simply world-class defensive midfielder, maybe even the very best. But either play him there or let him go, stop f...ing around so much.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:07 pm

You may not have noticed the position he was planed for, but that is far away from your typical CB. He acts like a kind of sweeper. He would've been the perfect fit for that middle centre back position in a 3 at the back formation, switching between midfield and defence.

In a formation with 2 CB's he could look lost, but in a 343, right in the centre, he'd be a great fit. His performance against BVB in the cup final, against Lewy btw, wasn't random.
Now that he probably has torn his acl, I can't see him really making an impact this season at all, sadly.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby endrity » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:20 pm

bastos80 wrote:You may not have noticed the position he was planed for, but that is far away from your typical CB. He acts like a kind of sweeper. He would've been the perfect fit for that middle centre back position in a 3 at the back formation, switching between midfield and defence.

In a formation with 2 CB's he could look lost, but in a 343, right in the centre, he'd be a great fit. His performance against BVB in the cup final, against Lewy btw, wasn't random.
Now that he probably has torn his acl, I can't see him really making an impact this season at all, sadly.


A 3-4-3 with Javi as a sweeper wouldn't be more than a 4-3-3 if Guardiola would simply let him play some 5-10m further up the field. And that's the position he needs to play in, never as the last defender. With Lahm as RB of course.

Trust me about this, though at a very amateur level I have had the same problem that he has. I played as #6 or #8 mostly, but because I was fairly physical in my tackles, people automatically assumed that I could play CB as well. And I was horrible at it as soon as I came across some fairy big dude that could really hold me off. That's exactly Javi's problem.

Actually even Klopp tried a similar switch with Bender for a couple of games last year at the peak of their injury criss. And he too struggled mightily with pretty much the same issues. So Klopp decided he'd rather play a semi-retired Manuel Friedrich there rather than a young, physical Bender. Funny enough the one player who did do a decent job at it, was Carrick at Man United. I actually think being rather imobile instead of an all-out, energetic midfielder prepares you better for life as a CB.

Btw, even if it's a torn ACL, Javi could be back by February-March. Khedira tore his ACL in November, and he was playing a CL final in May.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:20 pm

I had the same problem as you :lol: Much better at RB, but I'm tall and pretty strong, so some of my coaches thought I had to play CB just because of that :roll:

Pep wants to play 343 because, if everything works, we'd be more flexible and less weak against counters. Worked against Dortmund last season, so why not again ?
So why are you complaining about Javi playing CB in a 343 if its not that much different ? See, the system stands above everything, Javi worked there, so it'd be perfect.

If it doesn't, we'll switch back again, no doubt. Pep said 3 at the back is an option just as 4 at the back.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:23 pm

We need a fast CB for the style we play, that's why I like to see someone like Alaba in the CB position, for me he performed well today, one of the few who deserves a positive grade.
Last edited by JANCKER on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby endrity » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:24 pm

bastos80 wrote:I had the same problem as you :lol: Much better at RB, but I'm tall and pretty strong, so some of my coaches thought I had to play CB just because of that :roll:

Pep wants to play 343 because, if everything works, we'd be more flexible and less weak against counters. Worked against Dortmund last season, so why not again ?
So why are you complaining about Javi playing CB in a 343 if its not that much different ? See, the system stands above everything, Javi worked there, so it'd be perfect.

If it doesn't, we'll switch back again, no doubt. Pep said 3 at the back is an option just as 4 at the back.


It worked in a game, just like Lahm at City worked pretty well. But teams will scout for weaknesses and they will exploit them. By the time the WC was around, teams knew how to bypass Lahm quite easily. And I have seen a lot of comments in other forums, to know that Javi as a CB is seen to be a weakness and is not much a of a secret these days.

I am fine with the sweeper position as long as he isn't the last defender, which is what Guardiola actually wants him to do most often. That's the part that worries me because that's where he struggles most often.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:26 pm

Image

Not much difference between that, and a 343 with Alaba and another guy on the wings. Just that Javi is playing deeper.
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Hernández -- Alaba -- Upamecano
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby endrity » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:27 pm

JANCKER wrote:We need a fast CB for the style we play, that's why I like to see someone like Alaba in the CB position, for me he performed well today, one of the few who deserves a positive grade.


But it really is a waste to play Alaba there, which is why I am complaining about Pep's tactics with our players. Sure, with the right tactics it could be wonderful.

I think a possible, Boateng - Badsturber - Sokratis CB pairing would be amazing. It's incredibly how much Sokratis has developed, he might really be their most indispensable CB I think. I don't think Subotic is getting his starting spot anytime soon.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Fénix » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:11 pm

JANCKER wrote:We need a fast CB for the style we play

Hahahaha, don't make us funny. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You won't find that player on this planet, be sure in that. :wink:

When somebody finds that CB, I suggest to he/she/it to post his name here. :P
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:19 pm

Maybe we found him.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Fénix » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:32 pm

JANCKER wrote:Maybe we found him.

You won't find them. That's a risk you have to pay when you play with the last line far from its own goal.

On the huge space there's no player who can handle with his opponent, they've said that in one sports studio during the World Cup. Everything is great until you lose the ball or someone makes a mistake. Quick transition is difficult to stop, just as it's difficult to keep concentration, stick the lines less than 20 meters while you're defending, being disciplined, etc.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:50 pm

Fénix wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Maybe we found him.

You won't find them. That's a risk you have to pay when you play with the last line far from its own goal.

On the huge space there's no player who can handle with his opponent, they've said that in one sports studio during the World Cup. Everything is great until you lose the ball or someone makes a mistake. Quick transition is difficult to stop, just as it's difficult to keep concentration, stick the lines less than 20 meters while you're defending, being disciplined, etc.


There is no great genius without some touch of madness. :P
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:53 pm

Lets just sign Benatia and park the bus.
Sané ---- Lewandowski ---- Gnabry
Davies - Thiago - Kimmich - Dest
Hernández -- Alaba -- Upamecano
--------------- Neuer ----------------
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:09 pm

bastos80 wrote:Lets just sign Benatia and park the bus.


Bayern would never do that, even when they were worse, no one who is associated with that pathetic strategy gets the chance to manage Bayern.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:24 pm

Yeah, was just joking. :lol:
Thought we played quick and direct in the first 15 minutes. We need to build on that. For some reason we've broken in after that...
Sané ---- Lewandowski ---- Gnabry
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Hernández -- Alaba -- Upamecano
--------------- Neuer ----------------
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