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2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Bazi » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:00 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I think Muller will keep the role, Alaba will remain second choice, and then Schweinsteiger or Robben.

Dunno about Gotze though. He could be the number one taker. Is he any good in penalties?


Considering that his finish is arguably the part of his game which needs to improve the most I wouldn't count on him being a great pk taker.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Chalant » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:48 am

Can anyone explain to me the 'destroyer' role which is associated with Luiz Gustavo?
Emre CAN do it.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Badger » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:27 am

Chalant wrote:Can anyone explain to me the 'destroyer' role which is associated with Luiz Gustavo?


In simplest terms, the destroyer role is usually the DM position, where the player is tasked almost exclusively with breaking up opponents attacks. The player in this role will generally press strongly and tackle aggressively. There is little or no expectation that he would contribute much to building up attacks or to holding possession.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby tflags » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:59 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I think Muller will keep the role, Alaba will remain second choice, and then Schweinsteiger or Robben.


Looks like Alaba is in charge now; Mueller will probably get a second chance if needs be. Robben might be in line again; a chilling thought indeed.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:01 pm

Chalant wrote:Can anyone explain to me the 'destroyer' role which is associated with Luiz Gustavo?


The Makélélé Role
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Badger » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:15 pm

Commodore wrote:
Chalant wrote:Can anyone explain to me the 'destroyer' role which is associated with Luiz Gustavo?


The Makélélé Role


Interesting.

In the context of Gustavo, who seems to be the cause of recent uses of the term "destroyer", it wouldn't have occurred to me to make a comparison with Makelele. Makelele played a more sophisticated version of the role, and because the term "destroyer" was considered too primitive, the term "Makelele role" was coined. Gustavo plays a good game, but I don't think it has the range or level of sophistication that Makelele delivered.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby tflags » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:33 pm

Chalant wrote:Can anyone explain to me the 'destroyer' role which is associated with Luiz Gustavo?


I am with Chalant on this one. Yes, it is true that Brazilian football for all its "folklore and Joga Bonito style is quite physical," I see Gustavo as exactly the opposite. To me he is the epitome of the elegance in defensive midfielders; one who can disposes you of the ball without breaking either a sweat, a world speed record, or your left knee.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:38 pm

For the record. I am not insinuating that Gustavo fits the Makélélé role to a tee. It's just the commonly accepted term nowadays for the destroyer role that Chalant had asked for. And I happened to know this blog entry which does a pretty good job of describing the role and the origins of its term.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Chalant » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:09 pm

I have no great football knowledge but Martinez has 'broken up' more attacks than Gustavo , and is more suited to this role IMO
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:16 pm

Chalant wrote:I have no great football knowledge but Martinez has 'broken up' more attacks than Gustavo IMO.

Martinez has an added bonus to his game, he can offer your team more offensively and is very comfortable on the ball. Dont get me started with his passing range, i think thats where his Spanish roots help him out. Its no debate that Javi Martinez is a better DM than Gustavo. Now we just need to convince Pep that Javi is better DM than Schweinstiger :mrgreen:
Last edited by Firefox1234 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:25 pm

Chalant wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:I agree with your entire post but i feel like playing Schwein as the lone DM doesnt let him express himself on the pitch that much. When he let Javi do the dirty work under Jupp that was when Schweinstiger was a major factor. Now when i see him sitting between the CBs i feel like he is turning into an after thought and the only time i noticed him vs Gladbach was when i saw him make poor challenges in order to sop their counters. It was only the first game so their is a good chance he will adjust but at the moment im not completely sold. I dont mean im not sold on Pep's tactics just the positioning on some players like Schweinstiger,Javi, and at the moment Muller. I feel like Pep is tip toeing around the inevitable fact that he will have to bench a big time star or fan favorite like Schweinstiger or Muller. The fact that Bayern look more solid with Kirchhoff and Lahm in the midfield than when Schweinstiger or Muller are playing in the midfield means that Pep will have to bite the bullet of benching one of them....



I dont think that Schweinsteiger is a true DM. He plays better charging into offense rather than as DM. In Pep's 4-1-4-1 formation, Schweinsteiger would play better as CAM alongside Gotze/Kroos/Muller.


I agree but Pep is an offensive oriented type of coach unlike Pep who you could say was the latter. Pep wants as many offensive oriented players on the pitch that he can have. Thats why I think he plays Kroos/Muller/Thiago/Gotze as the CMs and Schweinstiger over a conventional DM like Gustavo or Martinez as the lone #6. Only time will tell if this will work out but im confident Pep will get it right especially since Jupp wasnt any faster on figuring out his winning formula :pep:
Last edited by Firefox1234 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:32 pm

The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby AdepT » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:53 pm

Khedira is more exclusive 'destroyer' than Gustavo according to me.

As for Chalant's question, I think you'd have got that from above posts till now. It's basically the opposite of the playmaker. While a playmaker builds up your team's play, the destroyer is meant to 'destroy' the play of the opponent's team. Positional awareness and tackling (usually aggressive i.e. physicality of play) are the two most important requirements as far the role of a 'midfield destroyer' goes. Breaking-up opponent's play and regaining possession are their objectives.

But different players bring different attributes to that role. The 'destroyer' role is much more evolved now. Gustavo's cut through passes and intelligence make him a better player than Song. Martinez trips Gustavo because of his passing attributes. But yeah, he isn't exactly your typical destroyer.

I have only heard, read and seen youtube videos of Viera and Gattuso. And IMHO, I see Gattuso as the archetypal 'destroyer'. Somebody who's seen more of him could shed a light. I am talking to you Commodore. :P
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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:33 am

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Re: 2013/2014 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Badger » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:21 pm


Thanks for posting this.

I would like to state, fairly mildly, that it wasn't written as a statement of how Pep can improve Bayern. I am convinced that Pep is well aware of all the tactical aspects mentioned in the article - many of them came from observing Bayern and what he seems to be trying out - and I generally try to steer away from all posts and posters who write as if they know better than the most successful manager of the last decade.

Elsewhere, I see posts to the effect that Pep needs more time. I'm not even sure that I agree with that. It may be true, in an inaccurate sort of a way. More accurately, it is Pep's players who need more time; he knows more or less what he wants, but the players haven't quite mastered it yet.

No offence intended. I just wanted to clarify my stance.
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