You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby tflags » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:58 am

Most of the time when you read someone shouting at the forum, it is a joke I have learned. :P. I mean, do you want any further proof - Barza diving I mean?
tflags

 

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:05 pm

Oh im pretty dense when it comes to those types of things :P
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18497
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5863 times
Been thanked: 4466 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Element » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:15 pm

tflags wrote:There is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of Barza being a buch of divers. ABSOLUTELY NONE! I mean, other than Gary Lineker saying one of the first things he was taught at Barza was how to dive but THIS IS IN NO WAY CONCLUSIVE, Y' HEAR! NO WAY!

I did not say that they take training sessions in diving or the coach is forcing them to dive

but

Watch their matches and you will see

you have internet , go and watch for yourself

or better , i have over 20 Barcelona fans friends and most admit that The Diving of some players is getting annoying
Commodore wrote:If you truly believe Barca are cheating their way to success, well, I guess you'll have to believe that. Whether or not their style is boring is in the eye of the beholder. I personally find it very exciting, but that's beside the point

Barcelona under Guardiola was successful , won a a lot of titles & played -Well not always but still - beautiful football to remember

watch barcelona this season , you will find many weak spots and i mean too many obvious ones , and they also struggled in many matches this season
Commodore wrote:Let me generalize a bit as well: In general you are saying that from 2010 on forward everything was shit, and everything is still shit.

No , in 2010 we were GREAT
2011 , We played the same under LvG , everyone knew how we were going to play which resulted in Failure
2011-2012 , We Played Very good , but had some problems , the obvious one was the bench & some other problems

2012 : So Far Everything is Working Great , Defense is convincing , offense is working quite Well , it is a joy to watch for Entertainment and tacticians as well & most of all ALL PLAYERS ARE GIVING THEIR BEST

i also have been Bragging a lot about our football

but,is it Perfect ? No & there are still few things to be done , but we are getting closer
can it be called successful ? no , it is still too early & as a Germany fan , i know how it feels to play TOP but not win in the end , which means that your GREAT football is useless !!!!

Commodore wrote:We are not playing the same style as last year. I am getting kind of numb saying it over and over again, but formations are not tactics! Our basic shapes that were 4-2-3-1 last year as well as 4-2-3-1 this year are producing styles that are very very different from each other.



Here is a point that we will both (FINALLY) Agree on

our main offensive route is now the Center led by Bastian Schweinsteiger & Toni Kroos (who has been World class so far) Compared to last seasons ROBBERY

Mandzukic moves a lot more compared to Mario Gomez

and i wouldnt do any change this season because things are working well so far

but also , when a team parks the bus against us , we simply become the headless team we were at the beginning of LvGs days

another point :

in few years , would you want to play the same as this year ?? and with 2 main players getting old , instead of replacing them one by one , why not make a WHOLE MAKEOVER , something new , something unorthodox

Robbery worked in the first 1.5 years , but then everyone memorized the way and we had to changed

in 2-3 years , this so-far Awesome football we are playing now will also be memorized in 2 years especially that the main way to stop this football is already known (Bayern wants the ball , so give them the ball and just stay back)


Barcelonas Dream football which was called unbeatable , become predictable after all , and the perfect world of tiki-taka (ah god i hate that name) wasnt so perfect after all

so this is why i am for a change AFTER few seasons



a 4-3-2-1 is something new , we will have the players who can play it & What this formation lacks in offense , it makes it up in Defense
and Defense wins you championships as the famous sports rule says (and as we are experiencing since 2004)

regarding similarity , BATE & Chelsea did basically the same thing , but BATE Tried to counter-attack , while Chelsea when they won the ball , they gave it back to bayern !!

As A Conclusion : i dont give a damn about how we play , it could be Lahm as GK with Weihrauch as CB and Dante as striker as long as we are winning titles


This thread has cost me much time , as i have an exam on Sunday (muscles , Bones & Ligaments)
User avatar
Element
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17818
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere on Google Earth
National Flag:
Jordan
Has thanked: 514 times
Been thanked: 954 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:20 pm

tflags wrote:There is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of Barza being a buch of divers. ABSOLUTELY NONE! I mean, other than Gary Lineker saying one of the first things he was taught at Barza was how to dive but THIS IS IN NO WAY CONCLUSIVE, Y' HEAR! NO WAY!


Before I say anything, let me first quote you from a few days ago.

tflags wrote:Y'know, people can probably hear (or read) you fine without the yelling. Did you miss your pills this morning or something? Chill out.


OK, so what you're saying is that a dude who's played for Barca in the 80s saying that they taught him diving is conclusive evidence for Barca being "a bunch of divers"?

The only "Proof" I ever hear about them being a "bunch of divers" is the constant repetition of phrases and terms like:

    -UEFAlona
    -Cheaters
    -Divers
    -Favored by the referees

Wikipedia wrote:
Proof by assertion

Proof by assertion, sometimes informally referred to as proof by repeated assertion, is a logical fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction. Sometimes, this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted (argumentum ad nauseam). In other cases, its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

You can choose to believe what you want. I choose to not generalize multifaceted subjects and I'll try and view them from all sides before jumping to quick and easy conclusions based mostly on propaganda.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 273 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:43 pm

Element wrote:in 2-3 years , this so-far Awesome football we are playing now will also be memorized in 2 years especially that the main way to stop this football is already known (Bayern wants the ball , so give them the ball and just stay back)


Barcelonas Dream football which was called unbeatable , become predictable after all , and the perfect world of tiki-taka (ah god i hate that name) wasnt so perfect after all


Yeah, and look how staying back and giving Bayern and Barca the ball is working out so far.

Let's take the three most cited examples for "Proof" that possession football has been solved by sitting back and conceding possession:

2010:
Inter 0 - 1 Barca

2012:
Chelsea 2 - 2 Barca (Chelsea equalizing on a last second counter)

2012:
Bayern 1 - 1 Chelsea (Chelsea equalizing on a last second corner)

None of these games were actually won by the teams employing this "foolproof" method of stopping possession football.
The two draws that were achieved were done so by last second equalizers.
In all of these games the possession football side scored at least one goal.
In all of these games the possession football side created a massive amount of chances.

If a fairy right now would offer me a wish regarding Bayern's season this year, I'd wish for each and every team to do nothing but sit back and concede possession against us.

If anyone, It's teams like Bremen that will make life tough for us this year. Yes, we had more possession against them, but they did anything but sitting back, parking the bus. They were very aggressive and disruptive in their pressing and they were willing to attack as well.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 273 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:05 pm

Commodore wrote:In all of these games the possession football side created a massive amount of chances.


Reading the BBC report of the Inter-Barca 0-1 right now, 84th minute -

Still, with six minutes of normal time remaining, Barcelona broke the Italians' backline for virtually the first time as Pique, arguably offside, collected Xavi's pass,


So... no. There's also the first leg in Milan, where Inter had under 29% possession, yet scored three goals.

I agree with you, though - Bayern should be aware of the teams that press high and aggressively with an intent to score first at all costs.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
User avatar
quaazi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 10079
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 pm
National Flag:
Estonia
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 1918 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:09 pm

Element wrote:our main offensive route is now the Center led by Bastian Schweinsteiger & Toni Kroos (who has been World class so far) Compared to last seasons ROBBERY




However, the focus on having our plays start from the center is in fact supporting the argument of having wingers, because, well, those are the guys who will draw defenders out (as well as making horizontal runs, touchline runs, overlapping with full backs, etc.) and give the center guys and the striker the needed space to operate. If this is what you mean by "center" football, then I'll jump on the same boat anytime, but not the 4-3-2-1 which is a completely different concept.



Element wrote:so this is why i am for a change AFTER few seasons

a 4-3-2-1 is something new , we will have the players who can play it & What this formation lacks in offense , it makes it up in Defense
and Defense wins you championships as the famous sports rule says (and as we are experiencing since 2004)


About this, I'm aware of your point of view and I respect it. Maybe you're right, maybe I'm right, maybe we both are, and maybe neither is. My point is, though, that we are not only 1 team. We are an academy. We are developing our long-term talents at all youth levels on the 4-2-3-1 philosophy. This does not mean that this is sacred and that we cannot tailor it to our needs, however there are many variations that can result from this formation that can run in parallel with our development. The "Christmas Tree" formation doesn't run in parallel with our development. It is an entirely new concept, and we are not in a transition period to shift there. We are in a "peaky" period and we need to use that to bring as much glory as possible.

P.S. If after a few seasons (quoting you) we didn't bring along any success, then I'll never speak Bayern tactics for the rest of my life. I seriously doubt it though.

Element wrote:This thread has cost me much time , as i have an exam on Sunday (muscles , Bones & Ligaments)


Best of luck! Maybe one day you'll be able to explain to us what the f!ck is wrong with Robben :P
User avatar
MoFattal
2011/12 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:48 am
National Flag:
Lebanon
Has thanked: 5059 times
Been thanked: 2708 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:27 pm

quaazi wrote:
Commodore wrote:In all of these games the possession football side created a massive amount of chances.


Reading the BBC report of the Inter-Barca 0-1 right now, 84th minute -

Still, with six minutes of normal time remaining, Barcelona broke the Italians' backline for virtually the first time as Pique, arguably offside, collected Xavi's pass,


So... no. There's also the first leg in Milan, where Inter had under 29% possession, yet scored three goals.

I agree with you, though - Bayern should be aware of the teams that press high and aggressively with an intent to score first at all costs.


True, I meshed up the Inter and the Chelsea games in my brain. Still there was no doubt whatsoever that if anyone scored it would be Barca, so the "foolproof" method to kill possession football will produce scoreless draws at best.

Barca went to the first leg in Milan by bus due to the volcanic ashes that made flying prohibitive that week. It's fair to assume that homefield advantage had a bigger impact than usual in that game. Apart from that I don't remember the game and might have never watched it to be honest, so I'll let Michael Cox speak for me:

ZonalMarking wrote:Equally, Mourinho played the game beautifully. Setting out with Pandev and Eto’o wide was slightly more attacking than was expected, and although Pandev found it difficult defensive against Dani Alves, the move worked very well in moving Alves narrow when Pandev made inward runs. Inter’s first goal was a great example of this – from a right-wing cross, Alves followed Pandev’s run towards the penalty spot leaving a huge gap at the far post, where Wesley Sneijder ghosted in unmarked to score.


No doubt Inter 2010 were a great team, but they wouldn't have beaten Barca by parking the bus for 180 minutes.
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

-Mehmet Scholl
User avatar
Commodore
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: GREAT LEADER™
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 273 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Pizarro: "It is now difficult for the coach. But I hope that maybe we can play with two strikers."

Mario Gomez thinks about it a little: "I see no reason to change the successful system, because the team is so strong in the system."

So here we have two strikers with different ideas. Of course, neither of them is the coach, but what do you think? Personally, I think there shouldn't be a static system but a dynamic one and we should be flexible playing with either a one striker or 2 striker system.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 45537
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8364 times
Been thanked: 13195 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:40 pm

Playing a dynamic system is a lot more tough when you have two strikers on the pitch, though.

I have to say, I don't really have an opinion anymore. Opinions are for when the alternatives are bad. Right now... it's all looking pretty good. Let's see what Jupp does and whether that works.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
User avatar
quaazi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 10079
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:13 pm
National Flag:
Estonia
Has thanked: 129 times
Been thanked: 1918 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:15 pm

It really is a tough call. I can see several benefits to switching back to the 4-2-2-2 but Kroos would miss out in that case, and I think it would be stupid to leave him out at the moment.
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 39532
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 13197 times
Been thanked: 10406 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Dont fix something that isnt broken is my motto, maybe late in the game when bayern are up considerably Jupp could test out a two striker system just like he did a 4-6-0.
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18497
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5863 times
Been thanked: 4466 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:08 am

Talking about the 4-6-0, I really like this plan. It gives us an edge when we're in counter-attacking mode, or when the opponent is playing a high offside trap. JH have tried it on two occasions now, so I think he'll be looking deeper into it in the next couple of games.

Back to the two-striker system, I think this would be a good idea when we're having a tough time breaking into our opponents' box. The current system is great when we're having our chances, but when we're relatively stuck, it is better to throw in a second striker to 1) loosen the pressure on our wingers/CMs 2) give a higher chance for crosses to find their way to the net.
User avatar
MoFattal
2011/12 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 11784
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:48 am
National Flag:
Lebanon
Has thanked: 5059 times
Been thanked: 2708 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby tflags » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:17 pm

Commodore wrote:
tflags wrote:There is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of Barza being a buch of divers. ABSOLUTELY NONE! I mean, other than Gary Lineker saying one of the first things he was taught at Barza was how to dive but THIS IS IN NO WAY CONCLUSIVE, Y' HEAR! NO WAY!


Before I say anything, let me first quote you from a few days ago.

tflags wrote:Y'know, people can probably hear (or read) you fine without the yelling. Did you miss your pills this morning or something? Chill out.


Ok. So I wrote something 'cause I thought you where being serious and you wrote something back because you thought I was too? LOOOOL. I was joking, same as you where at that post. Sorry about that. I guess I missed the quite appropiate " :P "

OK, so what you're saying is that a dude who's played for Barca in the 80s saying that they taught him diving is conclusive evidence for Barca being "a bunch of divers"?


I am.

Element wrote:
tflags wrote:There is ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF ....

I did not say that they take training sessions in diving or the coach is forcing them to dive but Watch their matches and you will see you have internet , go and watch for yourself or better , i have over 20 Barcelona fans friends and most admit that The Diving of some players is getting annoying


I have no doubt in my mind they dive (except for Messi.) I brought the quote as an example, albeit a bit outdated.
tflags

 

Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:58 pm

At the moment all players flop in all sports its just some do it more often than others, i have even seen Messi flop in the box just the same way i see Ribery, Lahm, and Schweinstiger have done.
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18497
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5863 times
Been thanked: 4466 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

PreviousNext

Return to General Bayern Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests