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2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:23 pm

MoFattal wrote:It requires Martinez to be one unique SOB at DM in order to play the 4-1-4-1 formation.

The pros:
- It gives us the option of full-court pressing starting from the opponents' half.
- It gives us TWO passing midfielders. So, if one bastard is having a slack day, the other one will be there for the rescue.
- More shooting options.
- 80% Possession.
- A little advancement from the FBs might bring more cover to Martinez.

The cons:
- It makes the area behind the striker very much overcrowded, especially agaisnt park-the-bus teams.
- It makes us very suspect to counter-attacks if the wingers do not want to press and defend properly.
- Somehow limits the attacking role of FBs, as we can't have all our people in the other half.

Some of the above pros and cons intersect with each other though, but that's just my basic thoughts about this formation.

Interesting points.

However I don't think we need to limit our fullbacks all that much to be honest. Let's say Alaba makes one of his co-op runs with Ribéry in my above formation. Immediately Schweinsteiger would drop deeper and thus he'd be fulfilling a variety of tasks: He's making room for Ribéry to occupy a more central space, so Alaba can run along the touch line. He's providing an emergency option to pass the ball to should we get stuck on the wing. And if we lose the ball, the counter will face an intact back four of

Schweinsteiger - Badstuber - Dante - Lahm with Javi Martínez in front who is...

ready to die running and defending
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:24 pm

MoFattal wrote:- Somehow limits the attacking role of FBs, as we can't have all our people in the other half.


I think the vision is to have Martinez play the Biscuits role, dropping almost as deep as the centerbacks, who in turn play more wide, leaving the fullbacks with having to make a lot more runs forwards. So I'd argue this actually makes the fullbacks more attack minded, at the expense of requiring faster centerbacks. Boateng should fit like a gloooove into that defensive lineup, and I'm hoping Holger will too simply through individual class.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:34 pm

^ Agreed with both of you guys regarding the attacking roles of FBs and the cover by the midfield/CBs. But, my concern about 4-1-4-1 formation is that I do not want it to become a blind all-attacking formation, leaving us susepct to killer counters, especially when the opposing team has a couple of super fast lads. Now, if the FBs are limited to the midfield line, with only a couple of over runs every now and then, that would make us pretty much solid defensively with an occasional unpredictability on the offensive end.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:51 pm

Well unless you're Barcelona and generally don't give a crap about defense because your whole game plan is to always have the ball and if you lose it, get it back immediately, then you're most likely not going to send both of your fullbacks into the attack at once. No team in the world is messed up in their brains enough to attempt something like this, except of course Barca. So theoretically we could bring a fullback every time we attack. (It's just not going to be the same one each time :)) and still be well covered for the counter.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:55 pm

I thought offensively Martinez can also be of great help, i kinda see him playing the Yaya Toure role for Bayern
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:01 pm

Nah, we clearly want him for DM. The only way I can see him contributing offensivey is during set pieces.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby BayernLove » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:10 pm

4-1-4-1 would be diabolical for Bayern. The high-line,possession-based football as well as having modestly paced centre backs and laregly attacking fullbacks means 2 Defensive midfielders are needed to protect the back 4 (which is a bit of a makeshift back 2, not that you look at it), otherwise the counter, a popular tactic with Bundesliga team, will be EVEN EASIER to beat Bayern on than now! Otherwise a good point MoFattal brought up is the fact we can overcrowd the midfield behind the striker which can be frustrating against counter-attacking,park-the-bus teams, and teams have already learnt how to do that against Bayern. I decide against the 4-1-4-1 and think a 4-3-3 with Javi CM, Schveini CM and Muller CAM would be better and more beneficial, when defending we could also make Javi a DM eith Schveini CM and Muller/Kroos taking the other CM spot.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:47 pm

Cant w8 for Javi to arrive so Bayern can test this stuff out!! :D
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Paddymcfatty » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:17 pm

I cannot agree more, as soon as this deal is over....

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:27 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:I thought offensively Martinez can also be of great help, i kinda see him playing the Yaya Toure role for Bayern


He will do (if he comes to us) those long runs with the ball like Yaya Toure with Schweini covering his back. That's one of the great things he has.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:41 am

So,

yesterday I've been searching the internet for an easy to use application to create football-tactics-animations, however I couldn't find a single one (much less an easy to use one). So, since football isn't my only hobby, and I love dabbling into image editing, and know myself around the GIMP at least halfway decently, I thought I'll try doing it in GIMP. Well, I'm obviously not yet satisfied with my result. The process is pretty tedious, and not as interactive as I'd like to. For instance I forgot to put emphasizing circles around key players, and adding an arrow here and there wouldn't do any harm either. However adding things after the fact is not really possible, at least not for me, GIMP only being a hobby and not my profession.

Ideally I'd also like to add the opposition, but that would be 11 more movable objects, and it's already super tedious. Oh well, it's the first try and I'm sure I'll find some shortcuts.

Anyway, here is (SOMEWHAT) what I was meaning yesterday when I was talking about the CM stepping in for the advancing FB in a 4-1-4-1.

Image

I didn't really do it to show you guys what I meant, as I'm pretty sure you understood me, but I wanted to do a tactics animation and the most obvious choice was the formation/tactic I had just thought/talked about.

If any of you are computer savvy enough to program a little application, in Java or so, that would automate all that, I'm sure you could make a buck or two on the interwebz with it.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:15 am

Well the problem there seems to be that there's really no "second wave". Everyone is in the box and one flank has two wide players in it. It boils down to cross or lose the ball.

AND I DON'T LIKE CROSSING. :evil:
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:45 am

I know :D. Hence the bolded and capitalized (SOMEWHAT). You really have to make up your mind about the entire play first and then put it in, as once you've made a movement it would be super tedious to reverse it. I realized halfway through that this is a wee bit too offensively. Maybe Robben shouldn't move into the box this aggressively and take Kroos' spot, while Ribéry looks for a 1-2 with Alaba into the box and Kroos + ST go to the far and near posts respectively. That way Schweinsteiger would be open for a back pass from Alaba should he get stuck, which he could distribute to either CDM, Robben, the box players or try something himself.

I like crosses by the way, especially with Mandzukic who is a heading beast. :D
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:05 am

^ We definitely need more of these animations here btw. Hats off to Commodore.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby brickwall281 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:24 am

How About this? Injuries excluded:

--------------------Neuer(C)----------------
Lahm---Badstuber----Dante-----Alaba
---------Schweini-----------Gustavo-----
----------------------Muller------------------
Robben--------Mandzukić------Ribery


I think it suits the team well

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