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2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:41 pm

In any case, JH seems to be insistant on this formation, so he has got to modify his tactics accordingly. Now what we need is a couple of park-the-bus teams to test the new tactics, if they were to be created. All I want though is one official game implementing the 4-3-3, only ONE, God damn it Jupp!
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby BayernLove » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:35 am

How about a coach partial to the 4-3-3. The Martinez speculation could lead to a certain Pep Guardiola coaching us. But all is speculation for now.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:00 am

BayernLove wrote:How about a coach partial to the 4-3-3. The Martinez speculation could lead to a certain Pep Guardiola coaching us. But all is speculation for now.


Not the right topic for coaching speculation but i agree a change to 4-3-3 wud be beneficial on and off the pitch :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby nur4bayern » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:08 am

It's been mentioned before, but when your #1 in a 4-2-3-1 formation isn't scoring consistently, you're really in trouble. I believe a good coach recognizes the strengths and weaknesses of his squad and creates a formation that maximizes strengths while minimizing weaknesses.

With our current squad, I still think we can pull off the 4-2-3-1, especially if Madzukic takes advantage of his current opportunity to impress the Bayern bosses. As with last year, I'm most concerned with our defense, although we are certainly deeper with Dante and a healthy DvB.

For me, the real interesting unknown is in the midfield. Will Robben step it up or crash and burn? Will Shaqiri become Robben's permanent replacement when Robben gets sidelined with another injury? Will Ribery continue where he left off last season? Will there be anyone around to help him? Will the real Schweinsteiger please stand up, please stand up? Can Kroos finally have a breakout year? Muller return to glory? Can Tymo or Can handle the defensive mid? Lots to think about for sure, as I think the midfielders will make or break us this season.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:44 am

Commodore wrote:Is wrong. The last sentence should be: "For some reason, they didn't do it often."

I'm fairly certain, after seeing the first two games, that this is one of the (if not the) major adjustments Jupp Heynckes will be making to our tactics this coming season. All the while not changing our base formation of 4-2-3-1.

Like I said Formation is not equal to Tactics.

Yeah, that is true. Let us hope they keep it up.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Element » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:16 am

BayernLove wrote:4-3-3 is EPIC. But what is the MAJOR difference between 4-3-3 and 4-3-2-1? (Other than the wingers playing behind the striker, closer to the middle, and being SSes)?

In football science
4-3-3 is counted as offensive formation
4-3-2-1 aka christmas tree is a defensive one

In a 4-3-3 ,the offensive power comes from the wings ,but the game is linked by the 2 Cms and there is a Cdm who is ready to die running and defending
In a 4-3-3 , The CM who is the brain ends up having 7292938 ball contacts and also most KMs run in a match
Also the FBs will have to cover more spaces and be defensively more aware

The striker here depends on the wings ,if the wings play opposite foot (inverted like Bayern) , he must be a playing striker

If wingers are classic, the striker should be a poacher

In a christmas tree ,everything is through the center and the wings are only used as plan B
Here FBs are usually offensive
And the center midfield duo usually has more defensive duties

All the offensive job is from the 2 CAMs
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:37 am

Just found this on TZ-online.de:

Heynckes: Martinez-Anruf mit Folgen fürs Team?

Die Bayern basteln an ihrem Team der Zukunft. Einer der wichtigsten Bausteine soll 40-Millionen-Mann Javi Martinez werden. Trainer Jupp Heynckes soll ihm in einem persönlichen Telefonat den Wechsel schmackhaft gemacht haben.

Nicht nur das: Laut Sport Bild unterbreitete er dem Spanier sogar ein Angebot: Die Sechser-Position solle ganz allein ihm gehören. Heynckes erwäge eine Systemumstellung. Sollte er diese in die Tat umsetzen, würde das 4-2-3-1 mit Doppel-Sechs vor der Abwehr der Vergangenheit angehören. Die neue Formel könnte lauten: 4-1-4-1. Martinez wäre alleiniger Chef vor der Abwehr, was ihm dem Bericht zufolge Real Madrid und der FC Barcelona nicht anbieten konnten.


I figure not a lot of you understand a whole lot of German, so here's my translation.

"Die Bayern" are working on their team of the future. One of the most important puzzle pieces is supposed to be the 40-Million man Javi Martínez. Coach Jupp Heynckes has supposedly made a transfer tempting to him in a personal telephone call.

Not only that: According to Sport Bild he even submitted an offer to the Spaniard: The #6 position should be his alone. Heynckes considers a system alteration. Should he make this a reality, then the 4-2-3-1 with a double pivot in front of the back four would be a thing of the past. The new formula could be 4-1-4-1. Martínez would be the exclusive boss in front of the back four, which, according to the report, Real Madrid and FC Barcelona could not offer to him.


I couldn't find the original article they are referring to (the one by Sport Bild). Might be in the print version of Sport Bild only.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:56 am

Image
Image

In the above formation all of Ribéry, Schweinsteiger, Kroos and Robben could very well be replaced by Shaqiri, either as a super sub or in a rotational system. Müller should also not be neglected and could possibly alternate with Kroos. Should we run into major injury problems, we can put Contento at left Back and pull Alaba up front onto the left wing. We also still have Mitchell Weiser, and who knows how Emre Can will develop to maybe one day play one of the central roles.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:50 am

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:55 am

4-1-4-1 is a curious formation. Not sure how that would work out.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:00 pm

I love it as long as a 100% fit Schweini plays in it (and of course Javi Martinez)
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:01 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I love it as long as a 100% fit Schweini plays in it (and of course Javi Martinez)


Thats the key to any formation Bayern choose....
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:07 pm

Yea but what I meant is that if Schweini is not 100% fit I don't think that could work.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:12 pm

It requires Martinez to be one unique SOB at DM in order to play the 4-1-4-1 formation.

The pros:
- It gives us the option of full-court pressing starting from the opponents' half.
- It gives us TWO passing midfielders. So, if one bastard is having a slack day, the other one will be there for the rescue.
- More shooting options.
- 80% Possession.
- A little advancement from the FBs might bring more cover to Martinez.

The cons:
- It makes the area behind the striker very much overcrowded, especially agaisnt park-the-bus teams.
- It makes us very suspect to counter-attacks if the wingers do not want to press and defend properly.
- Somehow limits the attacking role of FBs, as we can't have all our people in the other half.

Some of the above pros and cons intersect with each other though, but that's just my basic thoughts about this formation.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:13 pm

I'm not the greatest fan of Boateng. He's too volatile and makes unnecessary mistakes at just about the worst times possible. He impressed me during the EURO though, so I'm not blind to his potential.

@FCBayernMunchen:

Think of the 4-1-4-1 as a 4-3-3 with the one difference that it's not as whacky all out attack. This would make sense, seeing how one of our biggest weaknesses last year was allowing dangerous counters time and time again.

The sole #6's role is, like Element said in his post about the CDM in the 4-3-3:

and there is a Cdm who is ready to die running and defending


You've got two CMs who can fulfill a variety of tasks, from anchor to box-to-box depending on the situation and what tactics the coach employs. These CDMs usually operate a bit more central though as opposed to the 4-3-3 where they usually play a bit wider. They will step in for the fullbacks defensively for when they make forward runs (Which is why I think Schweinsteiger and Kroos are so awesome for these positions), and offensively they'll look for distribution to the wingers or for the through ball while ideally also posing a threat of attempting dangerous shots themselves from outside the box (Which is why I think Schweinsteiger and Kroos are so awesome for these positions :D)
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