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2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby AvatarX » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:25 pm

tflags wrote:Been playing with this idea:

Non Robben days:
---------------Gomez------
Franck---Kroos---Schewini---Mǘeller
---------------Gus-------------------
the rest of your usual suspects.

Robben matches:
---------------Gomez----------------
Franck---Kroos---Mϋeller---Robben
----------------Schewini--------------

The thing is this formation opens up more possibilities for our wingers to pass to a decent shooting position to our attacking midfielders in case Gomez is either offside or heavily blocked. Kroos & Schewini have pretty decent long shooting abilities and if Mϋeller moves to central, he can do his nice runs into area fouls or assists to Gomez.



Well, it would be great in attack but what about defense? Schweini alone as CDM is not a very good option IMHO. Germany tried this against Austria and conceded 2 easy goals.

I don't think that we should play without a true CDM (Gustavo or Tymo) besides Schweini.

So, with Robben fit we could try this:

---------------Gomez----------------
Franck---Schweini---Mϋeller---Robben
---------- Gustavo/Tymo--------------

Which is more or less what we do now.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:49 pm

Ribery------Müller-----Robben
Schweini--Tymo/Gus---Kroos
- Hansi Legend Flick -
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MunchenFC » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:49 am

I think Gustavo would better link up with Muller, but Tymo better with Schweini in defense overall.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:27 am

I know that you guys might say "hey, Gomez scores alot of goals so there is no reason to drop him from the starting lineup..." That's true, but Robben is also a great goalscorer. Robben can be like Messi in Barcelona. He or Müller can play the false 9 role.

Heynckes talked about RIbery as false 9 a few days ago but I think that Robben or Müller could be better options, specially Robben because he is a little bit faster and he is much better scoring goals.

Well, at least Heynckes is thinking about it and that's good. :D
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:11 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Heynckes talked about RIbery as false 9 a few days ago but I think that Robben or Müller could be better options, specially Robben because he is a little bit faster and he is much better scoring goals.


I agree on that. Ribery should either be a winger or a CAM, but not a false 9
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby dambun » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:25 am

A superb article by Rafael Honigstein about the reasons behind Bayern's success in this season:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/raphael_honigstein/09/30/bayern.munich/

I totally recommend reading it...
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:56 am

Hehe, Honigstein was of the "Bayern hasn't faced a real test" opinion some weeks ago. :P
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:18 pm

Great article:)
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby dambun » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:56 am

Wowww....!
I've just noticed it... My old signature suddenly seems so meaningful.... Words of wisdom coming out of a great man's mouth :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
=D> =D> =D> =D> :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:00 pm

Hitzfeld is undefeated in seven games with Switzerland, by the way!
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby dambun » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:06 pm

:lol: :lol:

anyway... another interesting article about our success... worth reading....
http://www.thehardtackle.com/2011/bayern-munich-the-secrets-behind-their-renaissance-under-jupp-heynckes/
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:40 pm

dambun wrote:I've just noticed it... My old signature suddenly seems so meaningful.... Words of wisdom coming out of a great man's mouth


I was actually going to tell you that you should probably change it last week, because it has been accomplished :P
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:28 am

Interesting interview with Thomas Strunz. The bit that stood out for me was his thoughts on Barcelona.

If you look at their tactical formation, they are the only top team that play with no real centre forward. We saw this extremely well in the Champions League final against Manchester United. [Rio] Ferdinand and [Nemanja] Vidic had no real opponents and were completely overwhelmed. They could not be focused on anyone. Maybe a team could try to play with a sweeper. They could operate with three men in front of a central defender. With a back four, the two central defenders are facing a free space. And always, Villa, Iniesta, Messi and Pedro try to get inside. Why should this space be given up?

In a way, he has a point. We're all thinking that screening the defensive line with a lot of DMs would do the trick, but isn't that exactly what Barcelona would like? I mean, we'd have a strong defense but no real midfield strength, because we're wasting players in defensive roles.

Instead, a quasi-sweeper (Gustavo or Boateng seem well suited for the role... Hummels would be a dream, for example) to keep track of Messi playing in the false nine position, while the central defenders keep tactical discipline and won't get dragged out of position by their fluid movement. If Schweini keeps his current form going, I have full faith in his ability to do the job of the double pivot all by himself - his work rate is just staggering.

So a variation of

---------------------Neuer-----------------------
-Rafinha-Boateng-Gustavo-Badstuber-Lahm
----------------Schweinsteiger-----------------
--Robben----------Müller-------------Ribery---
---------------------Gomez----------------------

Gustavo marked in italics to denote his sweeper role, so he's not playing on level with the defensive line at all times.

To be honest, what stands out to me as the weak link in such a lineup would be Robbery, perversely enough considering their skill. They are both very exclusively pacy wingers, and their inclusion might upset the midfield balance. Perhaps using Kroos and Alaba instead (with Müller on the flank again even though I don't like it) - both track back a lot more and are a lot more comfortable drifting into the midfield to allow the fullback-turn-wingbacks to charge forward more and more. Which would look like


---------------------Neuer-----------------------
----------Boateng-Gustavo-Badstuber---------
-Rafinha-------Schweinsteiger-----------Lahm
-------------Müller---Kroos---Alaba-------------
---------------------Gomez----------------------

A possible problem with THIS however is that while the midfield is heavily populated and we can challenge Barcelona's possession percentage, the decreased threat from our wingers would allow their fullbacks to get forward a lot more often.

In any case, turning back to the 3 man (or 5 man, depending on how you look at it) defense would be an interesting and novel way to combat the Barcelona menace.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Aequitas1987 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:11 pm

Against good Barca players in FIFA using their unique 4-3-3. I always utilize a 3 CB + 2 wing back formation for success. And it works. So yeah your 2nd formation has the right idea I think in countering-Barca. I think it makes sense because of two main things.

Barca's pressing game is unique and so is their possession game. In order to counter-act their possession game one has to press appropriately.

Mourinho showed this with his inter, in the sense he parked the BUS but he did not make sure his team lost their defensive structure until Barca would attempt to actually get close to the box, thats when Inter would press.

Secondly, If you notice Mourinho's Madrid you will notice that Madrid has the quality of players to play the pressing game in Barca's half and they can do this almost at the level of Barca's pressing quality.

The mistake a lot of English teams do against Barca is they attempt to press Barca's players at the center of the pitch, where they are by far the strongest. Why waste energy trying to press Xavi and Iniesta in the center of the pitch when they are so good at holding onto the ball?.

So playing with wing-backs and 3 CB's with high work-rate attacking midfielders means that as long as we have tactical structure we can PRESS THEM near our BOX and go for counter-attacks and PRESS THEM in their half and look for opportunities. Playing 3 DM/CDM/Box-Box is a bad idea against Barca because you cant beat them in that part of the pitch (even though we are the closest to doing it).
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Aequitas1987 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:20 pm

Also to add if you want a Sweeper there is none better than Badstuber. I was going to suggest Tymo because a Sweepers role is more to distribute and start attacks as well as defend and Gustavo does not suit that role. Put Gustavo as a CB and put Badstuber as the Sweeper. As we will have the pace and athleticism of Gustavo and Boateng to cover any ball/player that goes past Badstuber who will mainly use his intelligence and distribution in the sweeper role.
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