FC Bayern Forum

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:28 am

you have more than a valid point... it cuts both ways...
You either chose the country of both your parents (if they are mixed you will spoiled for choice) or else chose to play for the birth country.

if I had to be in the same sit I would choose the country in which my parents were born!

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:05 am

ramsej84 wrote:you have more than a valid point... it cuts both ways...
You either chose the country of both your parents (if they are mixed you will spoiled for choice) or else chose to play for the birth country.

if I had to be in the same sit I would chose the country in which my parents were born!

I call these kind of people national mercenaries.

The rules are incredibly frustrating. If one grandparent had a different citizenship to yours, you can obtain such citizenship and represent that country. Thing is, your grandparent might not have even lived in such country; (s)he could have had that citizenship from his/her grandparent too! See what I'm getting it? Just because you have US citizenship doesn't mean you are American. Theoretically you could have US citizenship when your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather used to live there for a few years.

If I was FIFA president I would ensure to implement a rule whereby no one can represent a country in which he has not lived. If Tillman likes the US so much, he should go there and play in the MLS, rather than betray the country that gave him everything. But for now, just sell his ungrateful ass to Barcelona please, if they still want him.

Isabella · by **Isabella** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:15 am

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:you have more than a valid point... it cuts both ways...
You either chose the country of both your parents (if they are mixed you will spoiled for choice) or else chose to play for the birth country.

if I had to be in the same sit I would chose the country in which my parents were born!

I call these kinds of people national mercenaries.

If I was FIFA president I would ensure to implement a rule whereby no one can represent a country in which he has not lived. If he likes the US so much, he should go there and play in the MLS, rather than betray the country that gave him everything.

Why he must? Many of the better American players are in Europe or are interested to play for some European team. MLS and in general the US soccer system are not good enough in forming players, specially young players so Klinsmann prompted the US federation to try to call the eligible players who are already in Europe. You can blame the US federation and their system but not the players who decide to accept that (who have most of the times one American parent o grandparent who will surely happy to see the son with the US shirt). You are talking about boys in the 15/25 age range who usually have an American parent and grandparents, do not forget that...

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:18 am

If he's never been interested in living in a country, for whatever reason(s), why should he be allowed to represent it? How is it possible to love a country so much that you want to represent it, and yet refuse to set foot on it except maybe to go on holiday? The answer is, you don't. He's not doing this out of love: he's doing it out of convenience. Now, sell his ass to Barcelona.

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 am

*breathe in* *breath out* OK I've calmed down now. I don't understand why I always get so emotional about nationalities :lol:

Anyway, earlier I wrote we should "sell his ass to Barcelona", so I did some digging and it seems his contract runs out at the end of this season. So, we paid €500,000 to buy Tillman from Greuther Fürth (who described him as the best talent in 30 years: "Timothy Tillman is the biggest talent we have had for 30 years. His departure is a catastrophe for our club."), Barcelona had offered us some money to get him a year ago and we rejected it, but at the present day he is free to sign a contract with any club and move on a free transfer at the end of the season. We should either renew his contract or else try and sell him this month.

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:27 pm

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:you have more than a valid point... it cuts both ways...
You either chose the country of both your parents (if they are mixed you will spoiled for choice) or else chose to play for the birth country.

if I had to be in the same sit I would chose the country in which my parents were born!

I call these kind of people national mercenaries.

The rules are incredibly frustrating. If one grandparent had a different citizenship to yours, you can obtain such citizenship and represent that country. Thing is, your grandparent might not have even lived in such country; (s)he could have had that citizenship from his/her grandparent too! See what I'm getting it? Just because you have US citizenship doesn't mean you are American. Theoretically you could have US citizenship when your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather used to live there for a few years.

If I was FIFA president I would ensure to implement a rule whereby no one can represent a country in which he has not lived. If Tillman likes the US so much, he should go there and play in the MLS, rather than betray the country that gave him everything. But for now, just sell his ungrateful ass to Barcelona please, if they still want him.

I think there are some kind of rules.
If I am not mistaken only the father counts...
And they only go back to the grandfather..

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MUTU · by **MUTU** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:35 pm

Yes they go back to the grandfather, but is it necessary for the grandfather to have lived in the country, or could he have had the citizenship because his own grandfather lived there?

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm

Ah ok, the grandparent needs to have been born in that country. That's all.

Basically, a pregnant woman on holiday can give birth in a foreign country, take the kid back with her and the kid's grandchildren may one day be able to represent that country.

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:41 pm

MUTU wrote:Yes they go back to the grandfather, but is it necessary for the grandfather to have lived in the country, or could he have had the citizenship because his own grandfather lived there?

Place of birth only...
In fact MLT FA is always on the look out for players eligible to play for our nation in Australia UK and even Italy and they are also morning Cardona who is on the books of AS Monaco

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#12 · by **#12** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:15 pm

A "duty"? The only duty I have is the one I impose upon myself!

Jorge · by **Jorge** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:31 pm

It is an emotional topic, I remember how Jamaica qualified for the 98 WC mainly with home based players but sent to the tournament a squad based on British players descendants of Jamaicans and many had never been in the Caribbean, they called them "our Beatles".

When big clubs started to to build pipelines to bring young kids to Europe, try them and left those who did not make grade destroyed as human beings on their own, FIFA implemented all kinds of rules to protect them. Where we are getting at is that in today's globalized world FIFA rules seem dated.

#12 · by **#12** » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:56 pm

If we want National team soccer to continue, the only rule making sense is being eligible to play ONLY for the country you we‘re born in or have birth citizenship respectively...
Yes, it would deprive some "poor players" - most likely millionaires - of the joy of playing NT soccer - but in the sane way it would make it special again or even more...

America USA · by **America USA** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:06 am

I agree with MU and 12. Players should only be allowed to play for countries where they were born or at least spent a few years living as residents.

Is Tillman a US citizen? (Unlikely because the US has jus solis and he was not born in US territory) Is he a Greencard holder? Is he a naturalized citizen? How many (consecutive) years of his 19 year old life has he spent in the States?

I hate such mercenaries. I personally consider such people betrayers to the land where they are born and the country that raised them up. Sickening.

Isabella · by **Isabella** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:12 pm

America USA wrote:I agree with MU and 12. Players should only be allowed to play for countries where they were born or at least spent a few years living as residents.

Is Tillman a US citizen? (Unlikely because the US has jus solis and he was not born in US territory) Is he a Greencard holder? Is he a naturalized citizen? How many (consecutive) years of his 19 year old life has he spent in the States?

I hate such mercenaries. I personally consider such people betrayers to the land where they are born and the country that raised them up. Sickening.

I think Tillman is a US citizien. US has not only jus solis but you can be a citizien if you are born overseas from at least an American parent (or you can aquire US citienzhip having at least an US grnadparent).
Read here: https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship. No way who Tillman, who is son of a US military officer is not eligible for US citizienship and considering who his younger brother already play for US youth teams I think they had already it, likely from their birth.

America USA · by **America USA** » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:39 pm

^ ah I forgot about that provision in the INA. So yes he is a USC. But still he was NOT born in the USA and I highly doubt he has spent at least a couple of consecutive years of his young life as a resident of the United States. This still means that he is a mercenary and is only choosing the US NT because he is unsure of his ability to be good enough to play for Die Mannschaft. He realizes that being a German born and raised Bayern youth product would raise his stock immensely for a weaker (and struggling) NT like the US Soccer team. Textbook case of Opportunism. Nonetheless still Sickening to me.

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