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Italian football

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Re: Italian football

Postby Ruht » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:20 am

Managed to watch the full Roma-Juventus match (okay, almost!) and it was a good match. Roma were definitely more hungry for the win. Pjanic was the game changer, the moment he came on the flow of the match changed completely.
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:54 pm

Arturo Vidal : the most humble guy after C.Ronaldonna
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:27 pm

He is right though. We could have gotten this guy a few years ago and it would have been a steal.
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Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:35 pm

MUTU wrote:He is right though. We could have gotten this guy a few years ago and it would have been a steal.

In my opinion that turned out in our favour, because while we ended up having to spend a lot more money, we got Martinez.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:56 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:He is right though. We could have gotten this guy a few years ago and it would have been a steal.

In my opinion that turned out in our favour, because while we ended up having to spend a lot more money, we got Martinez.

Exactly, and Vidal turned out to be magnitudes of times better than Martinez. Vidal's currently 4th in the top scorers list in Italy with 10 goals, while Martinez hasn't even started as many Bundesliga matches. Last season, Martinez was a bit better than Vidal, but this season there is no comparison: Vidal is absolutely better.

We would also have saved some 27 million euros by opting for Vidal.
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Re: Italian football

Postby quaazi » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:58 pm

Martinez made the biggest difference of any signing in getting the treble, I'd take that and fringe rotation this season over Vidal's penalty goals every day.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:02 pm

quaazi wrote:Martinez made the biggest difference of any signing in getting the treble, I'd take that and fringe rotation this season over Vidal's penalty goals every day.

As I said, he was better last season. But this season Vidal's clearly better. I'm starting to fear that Martinez was a one-season wonder. I truly hope not. His only valid good contribution this season was in the UEFA Super Cup, sandwiched between two injuries.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Tedesco » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:34 pm

It is a bit unfair to say he is a one season wonder when he is plagued by injuries and always playing out of position.

Javi is a fighter, I can't think anything less of him. I wouldn't exchange two Vidal's for him.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:59 pm

Why is it unfair to point at Martinez's injuries? Injury proneness is something important once you buy a player. Just look at the Hargreaves case: 25m euros for a player who, despite being good, could hardly ever play due to injury upon injury. Vidal seems less injury prone than Martinez. And he scores a lot of goals as well. He's winning matches for Juventus while Martinez is switching from the dugout bench to the bench in Mueller-Wohlfahrt's waiting room.

There's nothing you can argue in favour of Martinez being better than Vidal this season, except that he scored in the UEFA Super Cup.
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Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:00 pm

MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:He is right though. We could have gotten this guy a few years ago and it would have been a steal.

In my opinion that turned out in our favour, because while we ended up having to spend a lot more money, we got Martinez.

Exactly, and Vidal turned out to be magnitudes of times better than Martinez. Vidal's currently 4th in the top scorers list in Italy with 10 goals, while Martinez hasn't even started as many Bundesliga matches. Last season, Martinez was a bit better than Vidal, but this season there is no comparison: Vidal is absolutely better.

We would also have saved some 27 million euros by opting for Vidal.

It is not the point. Vidal and Martinez were being considered for the same position, even though they are different players. Martinez's strength, apart from being a beast in the defensive role of midfield, lies/lay in his combination with Schweinsteiger. They completed each other and that was the biggest factor to the stability of our midfield (which in turn took a lot of pressure off our defence) and to the team as a whole.

I am 99% convinced that Vidal, whether or not he is better as an individual (he is certainly a more respected name), would not have had such an impact on Bayern.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:05 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:in his combination with Schweinsteiger

You're still thinking about last season. Heynckes is gone and Bayern are since playing with different tactics. Now suddenly Martinez doesn't look good, while Vidal continues to excel.
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:08 pm

We would also have saved some 27 million euros by opting for Vidal.[/quote]
It is not the point. Vidal and Martinez were being considered for the same position, even though they are different players. Martinez's strength, apart from being a beast in the defensive role of midfield, lies/lay in his combination with Schweinsteiger. They completed each other and that was the biggest factor to the stability of our midfield (which in turn took a lot of pressure off our defence) and to the team as a whole.

I am 99% convinced that Vidal, whether or not he is better as an individual (he is certainly a more respected name), would not have had such an impact on Bayern.[/quote]

Agreed. That is Martinez's problem this yr. He finds himself prone all alone in mdf. He is the lamb of sacrifice of Pep's new 4-1-4-1 system :evil:
But that is football he has to adopt to a new system... I believe that he'll eventually will... just some patience.
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Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:11 pm

MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:in his combination with Schweinsteiger

You're still thinking about last season. Heynckes is gone and Bayern are since playing with different tactics. Now suddenly Martinez doesn't look good, while Vidal continues to excel.


Well, yes, because that's the only one in which trophies have been handed out so far. :P

It is true that Martinez hasn't yet excelled, but he has been a bit unlucky so far. He was injured a couple of times in a time when the whole team was adjusting to a new system in which his position was the one affected most. You could argue that he didn't play when he returned either, but he returned at a crucial point of the season. Now that he's had the winter break, I think we will see more of him, but we'll see.

Back to Vidal however, I do not see how he would fit in Guardiola's system either, at least not as the "1". What the team needs is a more defensive player, like Martinez himself. My regret is not that we didn't get Vidal, but that we sold Gustavo, because I think he would have filled that role well and would certainly have played a lot with our injuries.

EDIT: Also remember that when the whole team was struggling to get used to the new system vs Chelsea (with Lahm playing for the first time in his new position), it was a not 100% fit Martinez (who got re-injured during that game) that Guardiola trusted to stabilise the team, and it was him who ultimately made the difference (although in all honesty that has nothing to do with how good he is, considering he almost never scores).
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Re: Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:18 pm

You cant really know for sure if Vidal would have made the same impact af Bayern. Their too many factors to account for, all we can say is Vidal at the moment is doing more for Juve than Martinez is for Bayern everything else is pure speculation
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Re: Italian football

Postby Achilles » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:20 pm

Vidal is the best box-to-box out there right now but being the best midfielder is hard to say,Juventus is struggling big time at the big stage despite being a decent team and Arturo Vidal is actually their best player or better their most valuable player.
Personally I see Yaya Toure as the best central midfielder and then Vidal but the differences are small.

Now about Bayern and Martinez-Vidal,no regrets definetely but no comparisons at all,Martinez last year was better and Vidal this season better than him if we consider them as "midfielders" when it comes to details Vidal and Martinez are so different.

Martinez one-season wonder MUTU? I think you overdid it,I know what you are meaning but it was too much.I clearly remember Gustavo playing some fantastic football last year in the first round and Martinez being a bencher and a newcomer,then he became a beast,maybe under Pep the same thing could happen who knows? But I'm really worried about Martinez issue,he doesn't play at DMF,clearly Pep wants another player for thar role till now and I don't see where Martinez would fit,it's a problem but I end it here because it's off topic.
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