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Italian football

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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:49 pm

https://www.tuttosport.com/news/calcio/ ... e_nel_2008

in 2008 Inter and Milan were acquitted for the same things in 2008

Ramsej?? prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:32 pm

Valerio wrote:https://www.tuttosport.com/news/calcio/serie-a/juventus/2021/11/26-87401881/juve_inchiesta_plusvalenze_milan_e_inter_assolte_nel_2008

in 2008 Inter and Milan were acquitted for the same things in 2008

Ramsej?? prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So they will do the same...
And therefore why all this drama?
They announced it as is if they had caught a Mafia boss
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:36 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
Valerio wrote:https://www.tuttosport.com/news/calcio/serie-a/juventus/2021/11/26-87401881/juve_inchiesta_plusvalenze_milan_e_inter_assolte_nel_2008

in 2008 Inter and Milan were acquitted for the same things in 2008

Ramsej?? prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So they will do the same...
And therefore why all this drama?
They announced it as is if they had caught a Mafia boss

because it's Juventus
Because it makes you click,buy and what's not you know the gist.

If something is done by Arminia I doubt anyone would care as much as if done by Bayern
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:53 pm

Pioli signs extension for Milan and today they lose
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Italian football

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:21 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Pioli signs extension for Milan and today they lose


Berardi always destroys Milan bro haha. 10 goals and 4 assists against them in 16 games in his career, I remember when he scored 3 in one game against them. :D
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:13 pm

Valerio wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
Valerio wrote:https://www.tuttosport.com/news/calcio/serie-a/juventus/2021/11/26-87401881/juve_inchiesta_plusvalenze_milan_e_inter_assolte_nel_2008

in 2008 Inter and Milan were acquitted for the same things in 2008

Ramsej?? prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
So they will do the same...
And therefore why all this drama?
They announced it as is if they had caught a Mafia boss

because it's Juventus
Because it makes you click,buy and what's not you know the gist.

If something is done by Arminia I doubt anyone would care as much as if done by Bayern


Napoli in it is well with the Oshimen transfer...
Juventus are also involved in something with the agents... namely Mendes and Raiola/...
If I understood well they are on the wage bill of Juve!
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:38 pm

we'll see Honestly I'm not worried.
sportily speaking there is nothing
It may fall under some problems (fines) for those handling it
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Re: Italian football

Postby serbuz » Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:13 am

In Italy there is a team that has always used illicit means to win. Fortunately, sometimes justice manages to do its duty and these thieves are stopped for a while, as happened in 2006. The big problem is that after a few years they start cheating again, because it is in their nature. This is the history of Juventus. It is very sad to see the reaction of the Juventus fans: they always try to show that there is a conspiracy every time to not let them win. The alternative for them would be to admit either that they are very stupid not to understand that they win by cheating, or that they are dishonest people who like to steal in their life.
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 am

The thing that made me think is that it had to happen in one of their worst season in years ... (2010)
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:51 am

Valerio wrote:we'll see Honestly I'm not worried.
sportily speaking there is nothing
It may fall under some problems (fines) for those handling it

Does it not bother you that your club is, at least, dishonest? Whether or not they get into problems for it is irrelevant: there's little doubt that they cheated.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:03 am

MUTU wrote:
Valerio wrote:we'll see Honestly I'm not worried.
sportily speaking there is nothing
It may fall under some problems (fines) for those handling it

Does it not bother you that your club is, at least, dishonest? Whether or not they get into problems for it is irrelevant: there's little doubt that they cheated.

I don't even know where to start with you.
Ignorant or voluntary ignoring facts :D

IT's not ILLEGAL!
Can you put a price tag on player? YOU CAN'T

It's a grey zone that italian clubs used to stay afloat. NOT ONLY JUVENTUS.
Ask Inter,Udinese,Genoa,Napoli and what's not.
Only Milan avoided it.

WE aren't blind! We've seen over the years and everybody knew it was clubs doing favors to each others.
So not really. I never liked it because it's not a way to solve problems.
Every year that you make plusvalenze which aren't real your revenue get heavier and heavier taking away resources avaible.
So you don't have money to do operations of any kind.

If something isn't illegal it's not being dishonest.
If they suddenly told you smoking is illegal. Does it make you a criminal for doing it when it was allowed?
That's the same question you posed to me.
How do you feel about it?
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:05 am

serbuz wrote:In Italy there is a team that has always used illicit means to win. Fortunately, sometimes justice manages to do its duty and these thieves are stopped for a while, as happened in 2006. The big problem is that after a few years they start cheating again, because it is in their nature. This is the history of Juventus. It is very sad to see the reaction of the Juventus fans: they always try to show that there is a conspiracy every time to not let them win. The alternative for them would be to admit either that they are very stupid not to understand that they win by cheating, or that they are dishonest people who like to steal in their life.



Gli scambi gonfiati coinvolgono almeno 6 club", titola La Repubblica. Il Genoa ha chiuso affari per 123 milioni con i bianconeri e 78 con l’Inter. In 5 anni raddoppiato a 739 milioni il peso del calciomercato, ma con pochi contanti.

"Colpa di tutti: il virtuoso Napoli ha pagato 20 dei 71 milioni per Osimhen dando al Lille giovani oggi ai margini del calcio professionistico e Karnezis, terzo portiere sull’orlo della “pensione” - scrive Matteo Pinci -. Anche nella Juventus l’impatto dei ricavi è cresciuto vertiginosamente in due anni: dal 2018 al 2020, il periodo sotto indagine, gli effetti prodotti dalle cessioni sono cresciuti del 70%. Una delle società con cui la Juve ha messo in atto un flusso piuttosto continuo è il Genoa: tra i due club sono circolati circa 123 milioni di euro in trasferimenti. In realtà soltanto 25 sono andati a ingrassare i conti correnti. Il resto si è compensato in un pari e patta. (...) Prendete l’Inter. Dal 2018, tra i nerazzurri e il Genoa sei operazioni per 78 milioni: tre acquisti per club. Ma, nei fatti, si sono mossi solo 5 milioni. Anche perché i giocatori erano quasi sempre gli stessi: nel 2018 il Genoa acquista il portiere Radu, l’anno successivo lo riprende l’Inter spendendo poco più di quanto incassato. Dodici mesi dopo tocca a Pinamonti: va al Genoa per 19 milioni, un anno e torna per 21 all’Inter dove lui e Radu non giocano mai. Idem Vanheusden, venduto allo Standard per ricomprarlo, senza impiegarlo. Perché un club in crisi dovrebbe spendere per giocatori inutili? La plusvalenza messa a bilancio dopo la prima cessione, ad esempio (...)".


Hello Inter!
INTER DID THE FUCKING SAME TO NOT SELL MAIN STARTERS BUT JUST YOUTH PLAYERS!
what you say about it? HUHUHU they just won a scudetto that way!!!!
OMG!!!

Or did you forget the summer of 2020 where the owner didn't have money to run the club?
We all thought they'd have to sell big players but instead managed by selling/loaning/re-buying kids as stated in the article?
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:28 pm

Valerio wrote:I don't even know where to start with you.
Ignorant or voluntary ignoring facts :D

I have the same feeling.

Valerio wrote:IT's not ILLEGAL!
Can you put a price tag on player? YOU CAN'T

If it's done with the purpose of circumventing rules, and it is proven, then yes it is.

Valerio wrote:It's a grey zone that italian clubs used to stay afloat. NOT ONLY JUVENTUS.
Ask Inter,Udinese,Genoa,Napoli and what's not.
Only Milan avoided it.

So first you said it's not illegal, now a grey zone? Just because others did it, or at least you believe they did, doesn't make it OK. If everyone parks their car on a double yellow line, you are still breaking the law.

Valerio wrote:WE aren't blind! We've seen over the years and everybody knew it was clubs doing favors to each others.
So not really. I never liked it because it's not a way to solve problems.
Every year that you make plusvalenze which aren't real your revenue get heavier and heavier taking away resources avaible.
So you don't have money to do operations of any kind.

Yes, so you see how it can be seen as cheating.

Valerio wrote:If something isn't illegal it's not being dishonest.

What? I'm sorry, but this is probably the worst argument I've ever read on this forum by anyone.

If I cheat on my wife, I'm being dishonest, but I won't go to prison for it will I? So if it's not illegal to cheat on your wife are you seriously claiming it's not a dishonest thing to do?

Valerio wrote:If they suddenly told you smoking is illegal. Does it make you a criminal for doing it when it was allowed?
That's the same question you posed to me.
How do you feel about it?

No, it's not the same. If the rules tell you that you cannot park your car in a specific place or it will get towed/clamped, and you find a workaround by renting cars and parking them and somehow escaping the punishment, i.e. purposely circumventing the rules set, it's wrong. Whether you can be tried for crime is a different story, that's why I said being dishonest.

Let's put a different case forward. A new drug comes on the market, niche drug nobody knows about, and you give it to all your players and they win the Champions League thanks to it before the drug is recognised by the anti-doping authorities and banned. Would you say you won that Champions League fair and square? It's still a dishonest, unethical and immoral means if you know what you are doing.

Of course, if in life you go by the adage that if you're not caught doing anything illegal you're being completely ethical then no wonder you defend Juventus.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Ottomeister87 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:10 pm

Valerio wrote:
MUTU wrote:
Valerio wrote:we'll see Honestly I'm not worried.
sportily speaking there is nothing
It may fall under some problems (fines) for those handling it

Does it not bother you that your club is, at least, dishonest? Whether or not they get into problems for it is irrelevant: there's little doubt that they cheated.

I don't even know where to start with you.
Ignorant or voluntary ignoring facts :D

IT's not ILLEGAL!
Can you put a price tag on player? YOU CAN'T


Or maybe stop being so ignorant. They arent widening the investigation just because they are bored.. .
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:50 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:Or maybe stop being so ignorant. They arent widening the investigation just because they are bored.. .

In a few sentences, I would like to explain the current investigation and why, as an economist, I think it is nothing more than a standard attack on our beloved team. The basis of the whole investigation is, to put it in the simplest terms, that the investigating bodies believe that Juventus generated extra capital gains from the movement of certain players, thereby cosmeticising the team's true financial situation. Of interest here are several other transactions with other clubs where players were moved between them for multiples of their real value. To make this easy to understand. With player sales, the capital gain is immediate, but the cost/amortization of the newly purchased player is only over a period of years. Let's say we buy a player for 20M EUR (all costs included) with a 5 year contract. He has a book value of 16M the following year 12M and so on. If we sell him for 40M EUR, our immediate capital gain after 1 year is 40M-16M i.e. 24M EUR. Not 20M EUR. This is 40M-12M the following year. i.e. 28M EUR. This would be one side of the balance sheet, the "plusvalenza". On the other side there is the amortization. This player generates that much cost every year, in addition to his salary, based on the ratio of the purchase price to the number of years signed. Whether paid in one year or over X years. Which is why the analysis is incorrect. First argument. What determines the value of a player? Where is it fixed who represents what strata of the market? Is there a primary directive? The answer in all cases is that everyone is worth what they are paid. Second. The pursuit of capital gains is nothing more than an economic race to the bottom. It is true that Arthur has never been worth what we paid for him, but for the reasons already described above, his exorbitant purchase price is also a huge cost to the club every year. And if sold below book value, it generates a huge capital loss. As happened with CR. I note that the depreciation costs in the team are naturally increasing, which is why we are on an unsustainable economic path. This business policy is not sustainable in the long term, as I have written before, it is more of a way to postpone problems in time. As I see it, these problems have now taken root. And not the economic downturn caused by Covid. This is a net lie, don't believe it, it's not true. My 3rd argument is that Juve, as a publicly traded company, should always have its accounts audited by an auditor. This means that fictitious accounts have no chance of being included. An auditor will sign anything under criminal liability. If he does not like something, and let us note here that in our case this is a very serious company, he will not sign the accounts. Furthermore, our economic activities are constantly monitored by the lending banks. It is impossible to pass there (I note on the amortization side, you can see that these figures give us a breathing space in the short term, but in the medium term they bury us under themselves. The situation has not been solved, we have just kept passing the buck). That's one of the reasons why the 400M capital increase is needed. Let's not dream of justifications, there is no money for that. Our plusvalenza deals are not ethical, that's a fact. They may generate large capital gains immediately, but just because they are not ethical does not make them illegal. In fact, it complies with accounting laws. I note that the two Milan clubs were acquitted for similar reasons in 2008. For my part, a much more legitimate question is why historic clubs like Juve or BArca and even Inter have to live with this, while anonymous nobodies like PSG or City or any of the nouveau riche clubs behind the XY Quatar’s sponsor 100M EUR per year. And in the spirit of FFp they can do it. Football has become corrupt to no end. At the moment no club is sustainable. While the federations are pocketing billions of dollars, the biggest teams get almost nothing. While the costs are going through the roof, those who are exposed to this and generate the federation's profits get literally nothing. Makes you wonder. This is one of the reasons why I say that the Super League is nothing more than football's last cry for help.
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