You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Italian football

Discussions on football in other leagues around Europe.
 

Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:22 pm



it is Mangia's second meeting in Malta... he is getting closer to become our NT coach [-o<
Last edited by ramsej84 on Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 46948
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 31495 times
Been thanked: 6784 times
Gender: Male

Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:27 pm

Roma and Inter aren’t too pleased....
Can't see tweet? Click here!

Lukaku’s agent isn’t too happy...
Can't see tweet? Click here!
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18624
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5880 times
Been thanked: 4508 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:35 pm

Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18624
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5880 times
Been thanked: 4508 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:39 pm

Firefox1234 wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!

He should use a spellchecker and grammar checker next time :oops:
To think this is his level of English after 8 years living there...

Also, I don't understand how this is considered racist. Is calling a black person black an insult? So if Bayern get 2 Italian players for example, and they combine well to win us the match and some newspaper headlines with "Italian Special", would that be considered racist?
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 45883
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8402 times
Been thanked: 13349 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby #12 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:54 pm

There’s a difference... Also, the problem us not the "black"
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 23045
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1166 times
Been thanked: 5322 times
Gender: Male

Re: Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:59 pm

MUTU wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!

He should use a spellchecker and grammar checker next time :oops:
To think this is his level of English after 8 years living there...

Also, I don't understand how this is considered racist. Is calling a black person black an insult? So if Bayern get 2 Italian players for example, and they combine well to win us the match and some newspaper headlines with "Italian Special", would that be considered racist?

Its all about context. Italian football and Italy are plagued with racist incidents against black people, yet their popular sporting paper uses the term "black" as a euphemism.

If your sister recently suffered a miscarriage or a fatal premature birth, would you try to cheer her up with a dead baby joke?
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18624
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5880 times
Been thanked: 4508 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:09 am

the title was inappropriate ... however I can understand what they tried to do... they wanted to say something on the lines of 'Black power'
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 46948
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 31495 times
Been thanked: 6784 times
Gender: Male

Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:49 am

Firefox1234 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!

He should use a spellchecker and grammar checker next time :oops:
To think this is his level of English after 8 years living there...

Also, I don't understand how this is considered racist. Is calling a black person black an insult? So if Bayern get 2 Italian players for example, and they combine well to win us the match and some newspaper headlines with "Italian Special", would that be considered racist?

Its all about context. Italian football and Italy are plagued with racist incidents against black people, yet their popular sporting paper uses the term "black" as a euphemism.

If your sister recently suffered a miscarriage or a fatal premature birth, would you try to cheer her up with a dead baby joke?

WTF? What does a recent death of a baby (something that just happened) have to do with your skin colour (something you carried your whole life)? Sick comparison mate. Look if I go to Africa and I hear someone say "ask that white guy over there", I won't burst out crying and file a police report for racism.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 45883
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8402 times
Been thanked: 13349 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:11 am

ramsej84 wrote:the title was inappropriate ... however I can understand what they tried to do... they wanted to say something on the lines of 'Black power'


This is my understanding too. They are some of their key players after all.

Even after the explanation I simply cannot understand the outrage.
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 39756
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 13339 times
Been thanked: 10523 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:01 pm

a storm in a teacup
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 46948
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 31495 times
Been thanked: 6784 times
Gender: Male

Re: Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:21 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:the title was inappropriate ... however I can understand what they tried to do... they wanted to say something on the lines of 'Black power'


This is my understanding too. They are some of their key players after all.

Even after the explanation I simply cannot understand the outrage.


MUTU wrote:WTF? What does a recent death of a baby (something that just happened) have to do with your skin colour (something you carried your whole life)? Sick comparison mate. Look if I go to Africa and I hear someone say "ask that white guy over there", I won't burst out crying and file a police report for racism.

Its about how the issue is perceived. To a black person the issue Italy has with racism is very serious, hence why Lukaku along with his agent, club Inter and even Roma denounced it. In Italy racism is very much a problem and can be seen from this article:
"More than half of Italians in poll say racist acts are justifiable" [source]


The same way you wouldn't want to make a dead baby joke after someone you know recently suffered a similar tragedy, you would not do the same about a "black" joke/euphemism if your society has a huge problem with racism. Its one of the reasons the use of "black face" is highly frowned upon in the United States because of its long history of being used to promote racism.
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18624
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5880 times
Been thanked: 4508 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:47 pm

So, because racists exist in this world, we're not allowed to call a black man a black man, is that what you are saying?

Is it OK to say "that blonde girl" given you're differentiating by hair colour and that they make blonde jokes?
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 45883
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8402 times
Been thanked: 13349 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:21 pm

But is it really a joke? It's a pun but is it poking fun at anyone?

As an example: Malta has just as much of a problem with racism as Italy if not more, for exactly the same reasons. Yet it is common to hear at stadiums things like "Damn, their black guy is really good" or "What a stupid mistake by the black player". Are these racist phrases? Not really, in my opinion. They're just a way to refer to the player who often people might not know the name of.

If it were for example a joke involving depicting black people in a bad light or promoting violence or something I would agree but here it seems like the fuss is just on the use of the word 'black'.
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 39756
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 13339 times
Been thanked: 10523 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:22 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:But is it really a joke? It's a pun but is it poking fun at anyone?

As an example: Malta has just as much of a problem with racism as Italy if not more, for exactly the same reasons. Yet it is common to hear at stadiums things like "Damn, their black guy is really good" or "What a stupid mistake by the black player". Are these racist phrases? Not really, in my opinion. They're just a way to refer to the player who often people might not know the name of.

If it were for example a joke involving depicting black people in a bad light or promoting violence or something I would agree but here it seems like the fuss is just on the use of the word 'black'.


MUTU wrote:So, because racists exist in this world, we're not allowed to call a black man a black man, is that what you are saying?

Is it OK to say "that blonde girl" given you're differentiating by hair colour and that they make blonde jokes?

No one is saying you can't call a black man "black" but the context the Italian newspaper was using it was as a euphemism/pun, during a time Italy is being heavily criticized for its racism towards black people. No one is saying you can't even make a black joke like no one ever really says you can't make a jew joke like "jews are bankers" but its about the context/time and place. If one goes to a holocaust museum do you think that is the proper place to be making jew jokes no matter how harmless it may seem?

The Italian newspaper was using the term "black" in "black friday" as a pun, as a "tongue in cheek" comment but it was/is misplaced because in Italy there are black people who are heavily being discriminated upon, so the term "black friday" was in poor taste. It simply was/is not the time or place to use the term "black" as a pun/"tongue in cheek" comment in Italy right now. It has nothing to do about the term "black" being offensive but how you use it.

If the term "black" is being used to identify/describe a person thats fine. However, to use the term "black" as a joke/pun/euphemism/"tongue in cheek" comment make sure you are in the right time in place or you risk offending someone.
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 18624
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: United States of America
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 5880 times
Been thanked: 4508 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:16 pm

I understand better what you mean now although still don't quite agree. Corriere dello Sport should have been more conscious in that they should have predicted the reaction given the current discussion in Italy, and therefore not published it, however I still don't quite see anything wrong with even in its context. Basically the mistake here is failure to predict the reaction rather than the thing published itself, in my view.
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 39756
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 13339 times
Been thanked: 10523 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

PreviousNext

Return to Football in Europe

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests