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Italian football

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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:24 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:If she is saying - No, No. Stop, and you don't stop -you don't have her permission - this is enough to bring you under the severity of the law.

I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't that need to be proven? What if her body is doing one thing and her mouth saying another thing? What if she started giving him the blowjob he allegedly wanted and mumbled (with the cock still in her mouth) "no no I don't want to" while still sucking it?

What if she rode him cowgirl style and shouted "no no I don't want it"?

What if she allowed her anal muscles to relax and allow him to penetrate while saying "no no no"?

Cos, really and truly, one could pass it off as role-playing.

I think actions should be considered louder than words. Then again, I'm not a lawyer.
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Re: Italian football

Postby IsiahRashad » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:34 pm

MUTU wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:If she is saying - No, No. Stop, and you don't stop -you don't have her permission - this is enough to bring you under the severity of the law.

I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't that need to be proven? What if her body is doing one thing and her mouth saying another thing? What if she started giving him the blowjob he allegedly wanted and mumbled (with the cock still in her mouth) "no no I don't want to" while still sucking it?

What if she rode him cowgirl style and shouted "no no I don't want it"?

What if she allowed her anal muscles to relax and allow him to penetrate while saying "no no no"?

Cos, really and truly, one could pass it off as role-playing.

I think actions should be considered louder than words. Then again, I'm not a lawyer.


Yep. Everything needs to be proven. Otherwise it's "word against word" - the better lawyers are always winning these type of cases.

For the other questions - I can answer them from the point of the Bulgarian law. Honestly, I can say that from this point of view the woman is over protected by the law here.
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:04 pm

imo penaldo is being framed..
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Re: Italian football

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:04 pm

One thing that's interesting to me is that AFAIK, outside of Ronaldo saying "fake news", Ronaldo and his counsel haven't made any claim that the documents produced by Der Spiegel are fraudulent, false, fabricated, whatever. They've threatened to sue saying they're an illegal breach of privacy - but I haven't seen any claims that the questionnaire (in which Ronaldo speaks to her saying no) is inaccurate. Then, of course, we see a second questionnaire which takes a different tone.

So it begs the question:
In "Document A" (the first questionnaire), Ronaldo admits the woman said no
and in "Document B" - the second questionnaire wherein Ronaldo changes his story and it seems more 'consensual' - obviously both accounts can't be true, can they?
SO, if "Document B" is the "true" reporting of events - why not refute "Document A"? IF things occured as described in "B", why not call into question "A"? If the document is false, forged, etc - why not say that? It would be incredibly easy for Ronaldo's counsel to come out and say "No, he never answered these questions and said that she objected" - but AFAIK, they haven't done anything like that.

It seems that Der Spiegel's legal team have deemed the documents cited to be legitimate. And it would seem that Ronaldo's legal team have not found them to be illegitimate (otherwise they would have said something, no?). So we have to ask - first: why change your story in the second questionnaire? Second: if "Document A" is legit (and at this point there's no indication it's not) - is it enough for criminal charges? Apparently the L.V.P.D. thinks it's enough to warrant reopening the investigation...
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:23 pm

ramsej84 wrote:imo penaldo is being framed..

Why so? He himself said that she said no and to stop multiple times, unless you mean that those quotes produced in court are completely fabricated. They have it in writing though.
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Re: Italian football

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:24 pm

To speak to some of the other matters:

--I don't know about other countries, but in the USA, when there are cases with high-profile/famous/rich/powerful people, settling out of court is not all that uncommon. It is certainly an imperfect process. But to oversimplify: generally speaking, rich/famous/powerful people are going to get better representation and have more resources available to them. Unless it's a 100% "slam dunk" case for the victim (i.e. they would obviously win in court) it can be difficult. (note: we see that here, too. Ronaldo had a gaggle of international world-class attorneys; the victim brought in a traffic court lawyer) On the other hand, even if it's difficult to prove, no rich/famous person wants their name being connected to rape allegations (or whatever it is). So, while I can understand feeling that it's "taking a bribe" or "enabling"...On the other hand, the alleged perpetrator gets to keep their name out of the news and the alleged victim doesn't have to risk a long and drawn out court case where they'd be up against seriously overmatched legal representation and very well might lose. And of course - as mentioned - when you're dealing with someone as high-profile as Ronaldo, whether guilty or innocent, it never goes well for the alleged victim. We all know how toxic RM and Ronaldo fanboys can be. We have all seen people giving death threats to referees for making a bad call or something. I don't think it's unreasonable to then conclude that any woman who publicly accused an athlete like Ronaldo of such a crime would likely face all kinds of harrassment as a result - even if things really happened as she claimed. Even IF it was proven 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ronaldo DID rape her (of course this is hypothetical) - we all know that there would still be CR7 fanboys who wouldn't accept that, would blame the victim, would say it was a long time ago so she should have let it go, just out for money, just trying to ruin a famous persons life, etc etc etc. Again - it's far from perfect - but sometimes it's the best you can hope for, I think.

--Why wait until now?
Well, there are plenty of possible reasons, and TBH, all of which are mostly speculative. It could be looking for more money, sure (i hope that's not the case). It could be that the alleged victim finally felt she got to a place where she felt brave enough to bring it up again. It could be that she was intimidated by Ronaldo's lawyers, threat of retribution, etc. It could be that - as we know - the "climate" regarding sexual assault reporting in 2018 is VERY different than it was in 2009. There are any number of possible reasons. It should be noted, however, that there is no "standard timetable" for when a person "should" or shouldn't talk about an alleged assault. Saying "this person waited _____ amount of time before reporting, why???" should not be used as a barometer for intent, truthfulness, etc. And we should also note that the alleged victim *did* immediately report the alleged assault right after it happened. I understand some skepticism when someone waits 10 years for an initial report (but again, there's no standard timetable), but that's NOT what happened here.

--What about a "he said, she said"?
We should first remember that generally speaking, false reporting is very, VERY rare. So it may be the case that it's all made up, or that it was consensual but she regretted it, or something like that, but statistically that's less likely to be true. Data for reporting on rapes/sexual assaults/etc is truthfully not terribly clear - but the consensus is generally that around 2-8% of reports are false, with most studies leaning closer to 2%. So when we say things like "she had consensual sex but regretted it" or "she only is doing it for money or attention" or "she took the hush money, so it's false" -- all these things MIGHT be true, but generally speaking that's not that likely.
There are a few more things to look at. As mentioned, we saw that she reported it straightaway. Friends of the alleged victim say she became an alcoholic *following* the alleged assault, not before - so we might be able to conclude alcohol was used after the fact as a coping mechanism (not uncommon). The alleged victim also claims a diagnosis of clinical depression and PTSD. OF course I have not seen her medical records so I can't confirm this one way or another. And it's possible the two things are unrelated (alleged sexual assault and PTSD/depression), to be fair - though unlikely, I think, as the claimed diagnoses came *after* the alleged assault*. Of course, correlation doesn't equal causation, but it's certainly something investigators would look at.

Apologies for the big wall of text. I like to think I've taken a fairly neutral stance, but just felt I needed to clarify some common misconceptions.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:52 pm

In my eyes a true victim doesn't haggle on money compensation.
I would go to court without giving a shit a who he/she is.
She may be raped , still no proofs or as we say in Italy not guilty until senteced by the court, but not a victim.
Still this is just her side story so far there is no evidence of anything else beside her words in a rape almost 10years old
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Re: Italian football

Postby RedQueen » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:55 pm

Interesting legal breakdown of the case (mostly in the 2nd part):
https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/10/02/cr ... legal-case
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:58 pm

I thought about this and my conclusion is that I hope he sees jail time ASAP. He is a role model for millions of kids around the world and it is absolutely necessary that no message is given that it's OK to rape, and it looks clear that he did.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:01 pm

Mayorga’s unhelpful conversations with the nurse and detective only caused her further grief. She explains that she experienced severe psychological trauma due to the assault and the pessimism and indifference of those who she thought would help her. Mayorga says that she felt “terrified and unable to act or advocate for herself.” These feelings gradually turned into post-traumatic stress disorder and severe depression.


bullshit and she expect anyone to believe that both at hospital and police who she reported told her it useless?
credible as fuck. More likely to be a metoo story rather than actual truth.
Specially given she consulted to the doctor and a police officer.
Simply not credible at all.

money haggling,fake quotes,metoo wave,9years passing lead me to belive she is either a bullshitter or a whore.
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Re: Italian football

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:03 pm

Valerio wrote:In my eyes a true victim doesn't haggle on money compensation.

Well, no offense, but 'your eyes' has no bearing on whether someone is a 'true victim' or not.

Valerio wrote:I would go to court without giving a shit a who he/she is.

A lot easier to say when just sitting comfortably at your computer. Going to go out on a limb here and guess that you probably haven't been (allegedly) assaulted by someone who's probably one of the top 10 (guesstimate) most famous people in the world? Again, don't mean to offend but...I don't think you can really say what you'd do in this person's situation whatsoever. And if by chance you have been assaulted by someone of Ronaldo's stature, my apologies; let me know how your court case turns out.

Valerio wrote:Still this is just her side story so far there is no evidence of anything else beside her words in a rape almost 10 years old

Well, except for the police report...and the rape kit...and Ronaldo's own admission that "she said no" then yeah not much else other than that, I guess. As I've said above, the time between is irrelevant. So long as reported within four years (it was), there is no statute of limitations on sexual assault in Nevada (where it is alleged to have occurred), so the gap is inconsequential.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:12 pm

aterford wrote:
Valerio wrote:In my eyes a true victim doesn't haggle on money compensation.

Well, no offense, but 'your eyes' has no bearing on whether someone is a 'true victim' or not.

Valerio wrote:I would go to court without giving a shit a who he/she is.

A lot easier to say when just sitting comfortably at your computer. Going to go out on a limb here and guess that you probably haven't been (allegedly) assaulted by someone who's probably one of the top 10 (guesstimate) most famous people in the world? Again, don't mean to offend but...I don't think you can really say what you'd do in this person's situation whatsoever. And if by chance you have been assaulted by someone of Ronaldo's stature, my apologies; let me know how your court case turns out.

Valerio wrote:Still this is just her side story so far there is no evidence of anything else beside her words in a rape almost 10 years old

Well, except for the police report...and the rape kit...and Ronaldo's own admission that "she said no" then yeah not much else other than that, I guess. As I've said above, the time between is irrelevant. So long as reported within four years (it was), there is no statute of limitations on sexual assault in Nevada (where it is alleged to have occurred), so the gap is inconsequential.


Of course I'm not the bearer of truth or justice.
Just stating what's my opinion about this case.
Someone stole my wallet 10years ago!!!! It was Bush! Bush now gotta pay me up the fee+compensation!
IF i Say so it's the actual truth!

you mean you wouldn't denounce the one who raped you?
I would. No doubts.

Offering me money to shut up? Ye I would take them but that would be my choice and would me me a whore and not a victim anymore.

I highly doubt Ronaldo admitted anything.
Those papers you talk about are anything real or just rumors?
Cause explain me how a private document between Ronaldo and his lawyers could be used or deemed as proof in any court.
They're simply trying the impossible.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:17 pm

Also about the metoo wave let me give you a piece of what I think about it.
it's always been like that. I give you something and you give me something in return.
If someone accepted these kind of deals how can they claim anything long time after?
They willingly accepted cause they had a gain from it.
A job, a paycheck increase and so on.
I have no pity for them.

But it seems now that in America you can change your mind with years passing.

I bet many thinks that those people who actually refused those kind of sexual trades are the stupid ones!
Giving that others accepted and started crying 10-20years after.
Once everything passed and they had their career.

I pity those who fought and refused not those who had a gain from it and had a guilty conscience and could finally scream: HE ABUSED ME! AND I WAS OK WITH IT ELSE I COULDN'T GET THE JOB I WANTED!!!! booohohoho support me.
Sorry bitch you willingly sold yourself for your gains.
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Re: Italian football

Postby RedQueen » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:24 pm

MUTU wrote:I thought about this and my conclusion is that I hope he sees jail time ASAP. He is a role model for millions of kids around the world and it is absolutely necessary that no message is given that it's OK to rape, and it looks clear that he did.

Personally I think it's more likely that he did it than that she's lying, but I have great doubts they'll get a conviction in a criminal court, let alone that he'll serve jail time.
Last edited by RedQueen on Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Italian football

Postby #12 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:25 pm

I am not really a feminist... I think too much political correctness is laughable... I don’t believe in a wage gap either... But I DO believe that if things were the other way around people wouldn’t talk like they do in this thread...

Women have been called whores and gold diggers and other things in here...

While I DO agree she’s, at this point, just doing it for personal gain, how about not dragging other women down with her and throwing them in the same pot?!
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