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Italian football

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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:46 am

poor atalanta ... and they are in the europa league
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:30 pm

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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:13 pm

ramsej84 wrote:poor atalanta ... and they are in the europa league

Well when you make a wonder season placing forth ahead the likes of Lazio,Milan,Inter,Fiorentina and Torino that's expected.
Specially when most of the team is filled with italian youth which teams are now in need with the new federal laws.

So Gomez,Gagliardini,Kessie,Spinazzola,Conti,Caldara will or have been sold and will help Atalanta rebuild their stadium afaik.

Nowdays teams like Atalanta are ants economically speaking. They and the players just can't refuse those kind of offerts.

Kessie 28m (Milan)
Gagliardini 28m (Inter)
Caldara 18m (Juventus)
Conti 25m (Milan)
Spinazzola 0m (loan already owned by Juventus)
Gomez 20m (dunno maybe he'll leave but that's not for sure)

Basically Juve,Milan and Inter robbed Atalanta half of their team already. Just Gomez destiny is unknown
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:38 pm

Atalanta Youth academy and my local team's academy have some sort of "gemelaggio" (can't find the english word... )

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Re: Italian football

Postby #12 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Partnership?
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:42 pm

#12 wrote:Partnership?

Kind of...

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Re: Italian football

Postby Isabella » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:45 pm

Valerio wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:poor atalanta ... and they are in the europa league

Well when you make a wonder season placing forth ahead the likes of Lazio,Milan,Inter,Fiorentina and Torino that's expected.
Specially when most of the team is filled with italian youth which teams are now in need with the new federal laws.

So Gomez,Gagliardini,Kessie,Spinazzola,Conti,Caldara will or have been sold and will help Atalanta rebuild their stadium afaik.

Nowdays teams like Atalanta are ants economically speaking. They and the players just can't refuse those kind of offerts.

Kessie 28m (Milan)
Gagliardini 28m (Inter)
Caldara 18m (Juventus)
Conti 25m (Milan)
Spinazzola 0m (loan already owned by Juventus)
Gomez 20m (dunno maybe he'll leave but that's not for sure)

Basically Juve,Milan and Inter robbed Atalanta half of their team already. Just Gomez destiny is unknown


Atalanta is a well know selling team... This year their team was better than usual and the three bigs needed good players for differents reasons:
Milan had not enough quality players in the team (and with De Sciglio going out need a replacement aka Conti)
Juventus defense is mostly old (Rugani is the only youngester there and the starters are all over 30)
Inter well... is Inter (look at his season and this is not the first time something like that happen) and someone like Gagliardini was needed

And I almost forgotten who both Juve and Inter bought their targets this winter because both Caldara and Gagliardini were pretty high in the Milan wish list (and Milan was unable to buy anyone last winter)
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Re: Italian football

Postby Valerio » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:06 am

Yep Spinazzola is a youth product from our accademy and was on a 2years loan to Atalanta.
So far only britsh news media are making Alex Sandro as a goner.

Recent facts are that Chelsea didn't bid 60m or 70m but 45.
The player itself never asked to be sold.
They're offering him 4m+bonus or 5m to renew or saying it in a way that british people understand 10m gross income/year aka 192k euro/week.
I doubt very much chelsea would istant bring Alex Sandro to be one of their top earners
Either is a world record offer or Alex Sandro will stick here at least for 1more year.


Personally I would never sell Sandro. Given that Marcelo is the best Alex is def in top4 LB in the world. It would be hard to replace even given a huge amount of money.

given that Dani Alves left for Premier League I doubt very much Juventus Management would sell the other LB.
It would be a huge drop in quality.

Which are LB/RB players which can be equal to Sandro and Alves?
Can't see many and they are expensive
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Re: Italian football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:13 am

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Re: Italian football

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:13 pm

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Re: Italian football

Postby aterford » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:27 pm

So, have any of you heard the buzz about the Milan money? Apparently it's not all coming from the rich new Chinese investor but rather a "vulture fund" called Elliot Management. Apparently a lot of Milan fans are finding this out and are pretty nervous about it. It sounds like they've borrowed a crazy amount and will basically need to be making Manchester United-level money in the next 3,4,5 years or else Elliot will be able to seize all of Milan's assets, essentially
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Re: Italian football

Postby nm462272 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:32 pm

have heard this as well... they are basically hosed if they can't make that Champions League money
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:55 pm

aterford wrote:So, have any of you heard the buzz about the Milan money? Apparently it's not all coming from the rich new Chinese investor but rather a "vulture fund" called Elliot Management. Apparently a lot of Milan fans are finding this out and are pretty nervous about it. It sounds like they've borrowed a crazy amount and will basically need to be making Manchester United-level money in the next 3,4,5 years or else Elliot will be able to seize all of Milan's assets, essentially

Crazy...
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:47 am

aterford wrote:So, have any of you heard the buzz about the Milan money? Apparently it's not all coming from the rich new Chinese investor but rather a "vulture fund" called Elliot Management. Apparently a lot of Milan fans are finding this out and are pretty nervous about it. It sounds like they've borrowed a crazy amount and will basically need to be making Manchester United-level money in the next 3,4,5 years or else Elliot will be able to seize all of Milan's assets, essentially

All the more reason not to send Renato Sanches there under that kind of pressure.
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Re: Italian football

Postby aterford » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:46 am

Here's a good read on the situation:

Amid the collapse of the Sino-Sports Europe bid for AC Milan and its revival as Rossoneri Sport Investment Lux is the new group - one would have thought it would be a phoenix that had risen from the flames - instead of a vulture.

And that’s exactly what the ‘heroes’ of the long-running AC Milan takeover have been described as. Elliott Management have provided Li Yonghong (the sole figure behind the takeover of AC Milan) with the cash that the Chinese businessman would need to close the deal with Fininvest to secure a majority stake in AC Milan. At the very least Elliott will allow Li to buy himself more time with another deposit towards the full purchase of Milan, in the hope that for the third time, he will be able to gather investors to secure the deal (Elliott have said that they have ‘found’ other investors, but will not disclose their names). Whatever the case, Elliott will finance Li - and their involvement in football should make Milan fans, and football fans at large, pretty worried.

Elliott, readers, are known as a vulture fund. Do you know what a vulture is?

For the sake of context, it’s worth going into detail on the nature of Vultures. These scavenging birds fly around dying, or dead, creatures and nest near the corpse so they can dip their long beaks and bald head to pluck carrion away after a death. Where’s the financial context to this? The following is from ‘THE EVOLUTION OF MODERN SOVEREIGN DEBT LITIGATION by Jonathan Blackman and Rahul Mukhi. It’s more academic than our purposes, but it’s the best description of a vulture fund out there.

"These plaintiffs are often referred to as “vulture funds” because their strategy is to buy sovereign debt instruments when a country is most vulnerable, which enables the funds to purchase the debt at a deep discount from its face value and attempt to enforce the full claims. This business plan necessarily depends on the lack of bankruptcy protection for sovereigns, but it is constrained by the sovereign-immunity rules that national legislatures have enacted and national courts have elaborated to protect the vultures’ targets from some of their attacks."

‘Buy when a country is most vulnerable’ - that should send a shiver down your spine. While the term Vulture fund seems like something to be feared, plenty of outlets refer to Elliott as a hedge fund. Elliott themselves don’t have a lot of information on their own website - it’s pretty sinister and it’s all very ‘big finance’.

From the description of a vulture fund and vultures - we can assume what happens here. The fund dips its beak into vulnerable companies and does what it can to turn a profit. These aren’t venture capitalists who deal in success, these are groups which want to turn a profit - no matter what. Elliott bought Argentine bonds when the country was in turmoil and turned a gargantuan profit to the dismay of the country. This might seem smart or cruel and it is both, in a way - but to big finance, this is day-to-day.

To put it simply, Elliott are liquidators. They are asset strippers. AC Milan’s future, should the sale go through, will rely on one man - the unknown Mr. Li who has jumped ship from China to Luxembourg. The man is powerfully determined to own AC Milan despite the collapse of his previous deal. One must question his enthusiasm and whether it is grounded in the right place.

Why? Because football clubs are not profitable things - you don’t stand to make huge money unless you do strip the club of assets and walk away with cash. In Serie A, the TV money is good - but it’s not Premier League money. It’s the type of money which can help a club maintain success, not make riches for everyone involved. Champions League success for Milan in the future will make the club a lot of money and might push the earnings towards that of the Premier League, but that’s a big gamble for Li - if that is the goal.

To be cynical, this deal is very fishy. Elliott are not a charitable company and haven’t given Li money from the kindness of their hearts - they want a return. Whether that return is optimistic and comes from the success of the Milan and the Rossoneri brand, or whether that return comes from trading off the back of Milan’s misfortune remains to be seen.


https://acmilan.theoffside.com/2017/3/28/15080586/the-vulture-fund-behind-the-milan-takeover
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