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Re: English football

Postby #12 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:20 pm

aterford wrote:I watched their match too and I wouldn't worry too much about it. Palace are a Championship-level team...Union, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Leipzig, etc would have no trouble beating them either, no doubt. And frankly: the PL as a whole is really, really down at the moment. There's about 6 teams who look like first-division sides and 14 who would look right at home in the championship...and of those six decent sides, half of them are so laughably mismanaged that they won't threaten anything of consequence any time soon.

Ultimately, if you'd been watching Pool before today, you'd understand that this was their best performance of the season and it happened to come against a terrible opponent. If you want to look at Liverpool's best performance of the year against an awful opponent and compare it to perhaps our worst performance of the season (against a team who's better than Palace, no less) and conclude they're better than us, so be it, but that's a pretty narrow view for assessing things. Lest we forget this same Liverpool side got 7 hung on them by Villa just over a month ago, and let's be honest: If we got 7 scored on us by Bremen or something, we'd hear about how we're sh*t because of it for the rest of the season.

Anyways, with any luck hopefully we get to face them in the UCL sometime soon, no doubt in my mind whatsoever we'd absolutely run them off the pitch.

If we drew Liverpool in the next round of the UCL, what do you think the result would be?
Well, I have a little trouble comparing whole leagues in such an ultimate way... But Bremen better or on par with Villa? I doubt that...

I was mainly pointing to your "accusation" of me being unable to say what Pool do better... Our team has a great morale, no doubt about it... But I still think Liverpool need to "work" less and can play more if it makes sense and/or you know what I mean...

Our best performance also happened against Schalke, didn’t it?

I don’t AT ALL see them head and shoulders above us, I think it would be a really tough 50-50 tie... But my point was that overall for me they SEEM to do better... One can disagree, as always, but it’s not completely out of this world to get the feeling things are a little "easier" (as in lighthearted) for them...

All that said, within the last week we kinda turned things around a little...
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Re: English football

Postby aterford » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:21 pm

#12 wrote:But Bremen better or on par with Villa? I doubt that...

Yes, easily

#12 wrote:Our best performance also happened against Schalke, didn’t it?

No, our best performance was 4-0 against Atletico Madrid, who currently lead La Liga and are incidentally the team who knocked Liverpool out of the UCL last season. (Or maybe the 6-2 vs Salzburg, who, as it would be...also gave Liverpool a pretty tough time last year.)

#12 wrote:I don’t AT ALL see them head and shoulders above us, I think it would be a really tough 50-50 tie... But my point was that overall for me they SEEM to do better... One can disagree, as always, but it’s not completely out of this world to get the feeling things are a little "easier" (as in lighthearted) for them...
All that said, within the last week we kinda turned things around a little...


Well I think you'd forgive me for getting a different impression then...
Comments such as
#12 wrote:They‘re still doing a much better job

or pointing out how their situation is unattainable for us...
#12 wrote:The Liverpool that lead against Tottenham currently and will lead the table thereafter... While we stand no chance of still achieving that this calendar year

Or that their league and opponents are head and shoulders better than ours....
#12 wrote:Again, they play in MUCH better leagues against better teams... And I do not see them always concede after 3 minutes... They (Liverpool) look more coherent and clearly have at least as many injuries as we do...Still Tottenham is better than Wolfsburg, Union and Bremen combined...
(BTW: They're not)

Maybe I read it wrong, but that certainly doesn't say "Liverpool and Bayern are 50-50" to me....and that's what I take issue with. Saying they'd be a tough opponent for us is fine, but talking like they're "way better" and that what they've done means more because their opponents have been better...it's just not really accurate nor particularly realistic IMO
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Re: English football

Postby #12 » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:10 pm

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:But Bremen better or on par with Villa? I doubt that...

Yes, easily

#12 wrote:Our best performance also happened against Schalke, didn’t it?

No, our best performance was 4-0 against Atletico Madrid, who currently lead La Liga and are incidentally the team who knocked Liverpool out of the UCL last season. (Or maybe the 6-2 vs Salzburg, who, as it would be...also gave Liverpool a pretty tough time last year.)

#12 wrote:I don’t AT ALL see them head and shoulders above us, I think it would be a really tough 50-50 tie... But my point was that overall for me they SEEM to do better... One can disagree, as always, but it’s not completely out of this world to get the feeling things are a little "easier" (as in lighthearted) for them...
All that said, within the last week we kinda turned things around a little...


Well I think you'd forgive me for getting a different impression then...
Comments such as
#12 wrote:They‘re still doing a much better job

or pointing out how their situation is unattainable for us...
#12 wrote:The Liverpool that lead against Tottenham currently and will lead the table thereafter... While we stand no chance of still achieving that this calendar year

Or that their league and opponents are head and shoulders better than ours....
#12 wrote:Again, they play in MUCH better leagues against better teams... And I do not see them always concede after 3 minutes... They (Liverpool) look more coherent and clearly have at least as many injuries as we do...Still Tottenham is better than Wolfsburg, Union and Bremen combined...
(BTW: They're not)

Maybe I read it wrong, but that certainly doesn't say "Liverpool and Bayern are 50-50" to me....and that's what I take issue with. Saying they'd be a tough opponent for us is fine, but talking like they're "way better" and that what they've done means more because their opponents have been better...it's just not really accurate nor particularly realistic IMO
Well, my statement was more about them domestically doing better... Which they kind of are... I still think the PL is overall better, but yeah, I might be wrong, I watch a lot less than like 5-10 years ago... However, I think we are ahead of them in team cohesion... If that makes sense at all...
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Re: English football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:31 am

ramsej84 wrote:Liverpool v Bayern

Liverpool
gk almost as good as Manu...
Better wingers
Better full backs
With Virgil their defense is more solid than ours...
They have a stronger bench
Manager as good as ours if not better

Therefore atm Liverpool have the upper hand

Behind the two of us imo there are Man C , Real and Juve and PSG
Couldn’t disagree more.

Their goalkeeper is the second best in the world, but he is not almost as good as ours. There are maybe 3-4 GKs in HISTORY who are almost as good as ours.
You’re supposed to say their wingers are better, and yet when Sané played in the same league as them he was the better player, and Gnabry last year was part of the best CL forward duo of all time. Granted, they are both in terrible form, but as they say, form is temporary. Conversely we also have probably the most in form winger in top teams right now.
When/if we resort to last season’s full backs, ours are way better. Seriously, there’s hardly any comparison here. There’s a lot of hype around Alexander-Arnold but I have never seen him pull off a performance significantly better than Pavard. Davies is unparalleled.
That said, I agree their defence is more solid than ours at the moment. That’s mostly down to us not having a midfield.
Both benches are strong, to the extent that it’s not significant. I think I rate ours more though.
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Re: English football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:16 am

Their LB is complete man... he is solid in the tackle, intelligent, good crosser, can score goals
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Re: English football

Postby MUTU » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:18 am

ramsej84 wrote:Their LB is complete man... he is solid in the tackle, intelligent, good crosser, can score goals


And I say we have 3 players in our squad able to perform better than him at LB :coffee:

On the other hand, TAA would walk into our XI even though Kimmich is a better RB.
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Re: English football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:37 am

guys you must have never seen Robertson play !
and you are saying that Mane is not better than our wingers?!?! :lol:
or Salah!!!!!!!

we are better in CF CM and GK that's it
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Re: English football

Postby MUTU » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:58 pm

ramsej84 wrote:guys you must have never seen Robertson play !
and you are saying that Mane is not better than our wingers?!?! :lol:
or Salah!!!!!!!

we are better in CF CM and GK that's it

Or maybe it's you who's buying into the hype.

WhoScored CL average ratings this season from players we mentioned:

Alisson 7.07 (Neuer 7.50)
TAA 7.10 (Pavard 7.02)
Mane 6.78 (Coman 7.87, Sane 7.20, Gnabry 6.88)
Robertson 6.77 (Davies 7.36, Lucas 7.13)
Firmino 6.21 (Lewandowski 7.50)

And last season?

Alisson 6.85 (and won the GK in the FIFpro XI, Neuer 6.88 mostly due to having nothing to do)
TAA 6.89 (Pavard 7.11)
Mane 7.30 (Gnabry 7.75, Coman 7.28)
Robertson 6.75 (Davies 7.80, Lucas 6.92)
Firmino 7.37 (Lewandowski 9.03)
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Re: English football

Postby MUTU » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:06 pm

So yeah, Mane was decent last season, but Robertson has yet to show some serious skills in the CL. He averaged 6.77 the previous season too, so his numbers are in the 6.75-6.77 zone, which puts him inferior to all our starting XI bar Alaba, who only Flick knows why on earth he's still starting. Also, pretty sure that Alaba would post better numbers than 6.75-6.77 if he was playing as LB where he belongs. So yes, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we have 3 players better at LB than Robertson. I could also stretch it further, cos I'm pretty sure Kimmich would do a pretty decent job there as well.
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Re: English football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:10 pm

ramsej84 wrote:guys you must have never seen Robertson play !
and you are saying that Mane is not better than our wingers?!?! :lol:
or Salah!!!!!!!

we are better in CF CM and GK that's it
Maybe you’ve never seen Davies? :P

And yes, of course our wingers are better. Sane has almost exactly the same stats as Mane this season and we all agree he is in terrible form right now. Salah is currently miles ahead in stats though he only scored in half the games. If our wingers were actually in form, they would be at least on par with Salah and way ahead of Mane. Just look at Gnabry last season and Sané when he was fit in the same league as Salah plays. And I’m comparing with Gnabry, not with Coman. Please tell me you don’t believe Shaqiri is better than our bench options.

Btw, fancy forgetting to compare Lewandowski with Firminho or Müller with Minamino. :P
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Re: English football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:11 pm

MUTU wrote:So yeah, Mane was decent last season, but Robertson has yet to show some serious skills in the CL. He averaged 6.77 the previous season too, so his numbers are in the 6.75-6.77 zone, which puts him inferior to all our starting XI bar Alaba, who only Flick knows why on earth he's still starting. Also, pretty sure that Alaba would post better numbers than 6.75-6.77 if he was playing as LB where he belongs. So yes, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we have 3 players better at LB than Robertson. I could also stretch it further, cos I'm pretty sure Kimmich would do a pretty decent job there as well.
There are loads of LB better than Robertson. We’re not the only ones who have them. He is very overhyped.

TAA is good but he is far from being certainly the best RB in the world, as some make him out to be. Imo he is not better than Pavard (who is underrated) and he is worse than Kimmich if he were to play there. The stats you posted paint that picture too.
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Re: English football

Postby MUTU » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:18 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:guys you must have never seen Robertson play !
and you are saying that Mane is not better than our wingers?!?!
or Salah!!!!!!!

we are better in CF CM and GK that's it
Maybe you’ve never seen Davies? :P


Robertson earns rave reviews for averaging 6.75 to 6.77 in his career. Along comes teenager Davies with his first season playing as a LB and posts 7.80. The difference between them is so big it is like comparing Maradona to Schlaudraff. At very least.
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Re: English football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:04 pm

Yeah, Ramsej completely lost the argument once he said anyone is better than Davies.

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Re: English football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:07 pm

I think we are being biased ...
IMO the Scot is more solid and consistent... I pray that I am totally wrong
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Re: English football

Postby #12 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:22 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Yeah, Ramsej completely lost the argument once he said anyone is better than Davies.

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Well, I think currently Davies is not that good... Of course that is compared to who-the-fuck-is-Semedo-Davies from 5 months ago so the benchmark is pretty high...
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