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English football

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Re: English football

Postby MUTU » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:21 pm

If it is an open session, I would call it scouting not spying. This would be similar to a coach being a spectator in his next opponent's match so he can get a better look at how they play.

If it is a closed session where the intention is to try things in secrecy, then using drones, spying with binoculars from some hill etc is indeed cheating.
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Re: English football

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:30 pm

Lukas wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:Since when watching your opponents train /play is something that you cannot do? This is really a massive two fingers to all the stupid, amateur rubbish that passes for punditry. This is an absolutely genius professional so far ahead of his opponents - it is unreal. Anyone who thinks he did wrong needs to remove their tampon and use it as a dummy.


That's everyone in the UK who doesn't support Leeds then. Cheating club and obviously the coach fits right in

Is it actually illegal or just frowned upon?
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Re: English football

Postby IsiahRashad » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:42 pm

Can't see tweet? Click here!

Bielsa offering coaching advice to Zinedine Zidane during his time with Marseille.
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Re: English football

Postby Lukas » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:13 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
Lukas wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:Since when watching your opponents train /play is something that you cannot do? This is really a massive two fingers to all the stupid, amateur rubbish that passes for punditry. This is an absolutely genius professional so far ahead of his opponents - it is unreal. Anyone who thinks he did wrong needs to remove their tampon and use it as a dummy.


That's everyone in the UK who doesn't support Leeds then. Cheating club and obviously the coach fits right in

Is it actually illegal or just frowned upon?

Just frowned upon. Unfortunately I don't think there are any rules against it yet as it hasn't happened before. Or at least no one has been caught until now.
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Re: English football

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 pm

Then it's not cheating lol
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Re: English football

Postby Lukas » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:20 pm

Scouting and analysis is fine, every team does it and Bielsa's detail is indeed impressive. But I just think spying on the opponent to get a last minute idea of their game plan and who will be playing is a low blow
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Re: English football

Postby Lukas » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:21 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Then it's not cheating lol

Tom (Leeds fan I know) is that you?
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Re: English football

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:23 pm

Lukas wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Then it's not cheating lol

Tom (Leeds fan I know) is that you?


It's a low blow. It's a **** move. It's frowned upon. It's a bad thing.

It's anything but cheating.
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Re: English football

Postby Lukas » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:27 pm

I take your point. Don't think it will or can go any further. Just a stick to beat Leeds with and you can never have enough of those :lol: Not that they'll care, they love the fact everyone hates them!
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Re: English football

Postby Borusse » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:51 pm

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Re: English football

Postby America USA » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:45 am

Borusse wrote:Defence is a mess, they don't have creative midfielders (best playmaker sitting on the bench), they have one decent winger in Iwobi. So it leaves Lacazette and Aubameyang, very good strikers but they need support from others to get into scoring positions. So it's not as great as it seems.

Iwobi is one of the worst forwards in the PL. Every time he’s near the opponents penalty box he has a brain fart and makes a large decision. Arsenal have zero wingers.

Sokratis, Lacazette, PEA and Torreira are Arsenal’s best players. Emery has sadly frozen out Ramsey and Ozil.
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Re: English football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:26 pm

Borusse wrote:Defence is a mess, they don't have creative midfielders (best playmaker sitting on the bench), they have one decent winger in Iwobi. So it leaves Lacazette and Aubameyang, very good strikers but they need support from others to get into scoring positions. So it's not as great as it seems.
Ummm? They have Özil (who was pretty fantastic not a long while ago) and Mkhitaryan (who was phenomenal back when he was in Dortmund). Plenty of creativity between those two. Back when Tuchel was in charge of BVB (1st year), you didn't employ proper wingers; the Reus-Aubameyang-Mhkitaryan frontline was amazing to watch. Arsenal could take a few cues from that, maybe changing it to a 352 to employ both Lacazette and Aubameyang. On defense they have Sokratis (great defender) and Mustafi (decent enough).

What I mean is, they do have a great team on paper.


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Last edited by PunkCapitalist on Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:39 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I rate Bielsa very very high. However he is too crazy to coach a top team, especially one like Bayern. And the problem is that players eventually get tired of him after 1 season.

But I really appreciate his work and effort. He reminds me of Pep and Tuchel.
Haven't followed Bielsa too much, but from what I've seen and read, this opinion is representative of what people think. Visionary genius, but too crazy to coach a big team. I think I recall that Pep cites him as a major influence.

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Re: English football

Postby Borusse » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:56 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Borusse wrote:Defence is a mess, they don't have creative midfielders (best playmaker sitting on the bench), they have one decent winger in Iwobi. So it leaves Lacazette and Aubameyang, very good strikers but they need support from others to get into scoring positions. So it's not as great as it seems.
Ummm? They have Özil (who was pretty fantastic not a long while ago) and Mkhitaryan (who was phenomenal back when he was in Dortmund). Plenty of creativity between those two. Back when Tuchel was in charge of BVB (1st year), you didn't employ proper wingers; the Reus-Aubameyang-Mhkitaryan frontline was amazing to watch. Arsenal could take a few cues from that, maybe changing it to a 352 to employ both Lacazette and Aubameyang. On defense they have Sokratis (great defender) and Mustafi (decent enough).

What I mean is, they do have a great team on paper.


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Mkhitaryan is a player who is very mentally fragile. He hasn't played even close to what he has shown at Dortmund in 15/16 season because there is a lot of pressure to perform in Premierleague. Either you give results imidiately or you're on the bench. And Mkhitaryan seems to be the kind of player who needs to get a pat on the back all the time, he can't handle criticism. So I wouldn't hold my breath for him to suddenly start playing great football.

Ozil is great but again, he is not playing so the fact stands - the team that is on the field playing is just not that great at the moment.
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Re: English football

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:56 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Borusse wrote:Defence is a mess, they don't have creative midfielders (best playmaker sitting on the bench), they have one decent winger in Iwobi. So it leaves Lacazette and Aubameyang, very good strikers but they need support from others to get into scoring positions. So it's not as great as it seems.
Ummm? They have Özil (who was pretty fantastic not a long while ago) and Mkhitaryan (who was phenomenal back when he was in Dortmund). Plenty of creativity between those two. Back when Tuchel was in charge of BVB (1st year), you didn't employ proper wingers; the Reus-Aubameyang-Mhkitaryan frontline was amazing to watch. Arsenal could take a few cues from that, maybe changing it to a 352 to employ both Lacazette and Aubameyang. On defense they have Sokratis (great defender) and Mustafi (decent enough).

What I mean is, they do have a great team on paper.


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Not the most accurate view at the moment. Agreed that Oezil still has value, but maybe it's just tactically not working. Mkhitaryan has lost it physically. Sokratis has fallen from grace. I disagree on Mustafi - he's always been shit. I really hate him actually because he's the first to yell at teammates whenever his own mistakes lead to a goal.

On top of that, Bellerin is just a touchline higher, Moneral's finished (Kolasinac is a horrible player), Xhaka has lost it, Ramsey is gone and Iwobi is horrible.

The only actually good non-striker they have is Torreira.
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