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French football

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Re: French football

Postby Fénix » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:06 am

Monaco's time as a French side being in top of the Ligue 1 is over immediately after they sold 60% of their 2016/2017 team despite the Russian oligarch as an owner and being liberated of all taxes.

So Jardim is fantastic by 2018, after that he gets fired in October, Henry takes over and embarrass himself big time, after just 2-3 months the Portuguese returns as if he was on some sort of vacation and then again last year in December fired, some new guy takes over and of course he fails, too.
Then in summer Kovač takes charge and Jardim is again the candidate.

I mean... what can I say about AS Monaco but how "brilliant". And they expected Kovač to be some savior.

Even if they go after Pochettino and hire him right now, there's a serious chance that he would fail, too. The club is a one big total mess.

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Re: French football

Postby nm462272 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:19 am

MUTU wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:Lyon 4-1 Monaco

:oops:
Can't see tweet? Click here!

LOL is that the official Monaco english twitter?? That's wild :lol:

Edit: okay it's not, but still :lol:
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Re: French football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:29 am

Fénix wrote:Monaco's time as a French side being in top of the Ligue 1 is over immediately after they sold 60% of their 2016/2017 team despite the Russian oligarch as an owner and being liberated of all taxes.

So Jardim is fantastic by 2018, after that he gets fired in October, Henry takes over and embarrass himself big time, after just 2-3 months the Portuguese returns as if he was on some sort of vacation and then again last year in December fired, some new guy takes over and of course he fails, too.
Then in summer Kovač takes charge and Jardim is again the candidate.

I mean... what can I say about AS Monaco but how "brilliant". And they expected Kovač to be some savior.

Even if they go after Pochettino and hire him right now, there's a serious chance that he would fail, too. The club is a one big total mess.

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Maybe they will go for Guardiola now... who knows?
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Re: French football

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:44 am

Golovin, Martins, Jovetic, Volland, Ben Yedder, Fabregas, Florentino Luis... they have a decent squad to compete in Ligue 1.

Not with a mediocre coach like Kovac though :lol:
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Re: French football

Postby MUTU » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:50 am

YlonenXabi wrote:Golovin, Martins, Jovetic, Volland, Ben Yedder, Fabregas, Florentino Luis... they have a decent squad to compete in Ligue 1.

Not with a mediocre coach like Kovac though :lol:

Call me evil all you want, but I always love it when a former Bayern coach does poorly at another club. It's always preferable that the blame of the performances of a past season lie at the feet of the coach who's no longer with us, than with players who are still at the club. In a nutshell, the worse Kovac performs with Monaco, the better our players look.
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Re: French football

Postby Fénix » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:53 am

Monaco are junk, you can count names as much as you want all of them can't make it to the Bayern bench except Ben Yedder.
A club that sacks its coach and 2 months later returns him to work is far from being anything serious.

Robert Moreno was really epic when he got fired so quickly and in Spain they started campaign and hype to prevent Enrique from returning to Spain post.

Pathetic club. Kovač chose wrong club and place just like Moreno and Jardim will be a total idiot if he returns again.
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Re: French football

Postby MUTU » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:03 pm

Fénix wrote:Monaco are junk, you can count names as much as you want all of them can't make it to the Bayern bench except Ben Yedder.

Aguillar > Sarr
Lecomte > Nuebel

Anyway, there's a marked difference between being better than 12th place in Ligue 1 to competing with the current greatest team in the world.
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Re: French football

Postby Fénix » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:18 pm

MUTU wrote:
Fénix wrote:Monaco are junk, you can count names as much as you want all of them can't make it to the Bayern bench except Ben Yedder.

Aguillar > Sarr
Lecomte > Nuebel

Anyway, there's a marked difference between being better than 12th place in Ligue 1 to competing with the current greatest team in the world.

Why is it hard to say they are lost in time and space? Their Russian owner is so 'heavy' that he can easily find a top sporting director, build a scouting network and pay a top coach to build a very good team to chase Ligue 1 within 3-4 years.

The way they want to achieve something in football is almost as equal to Eintracht's 3 seasons with both Kovač and Hütter. Once the source of success/magic turns off, they are back to their old and bottom table places.
The only difference between them is that Eintracht might have had a chance to grow with Ribolovyev's billions and without any taxes every season unlike Monaco.

They are simply pathetic and lost case. In 3 years they went from a fantastic attacking club that won the league and played CL seminfinal to this total mess in the last 2 and a half years. They need someone like Klopp or Gasperini who can assemble a team out of nothing and convert them into what they were under Jardim up to 2017.
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Re: French football

Postby aterford » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:26 pm

Not long ago many were convinced that Bayern's squad was not good enough to compete for silverware and that many of its key players were past their best and in need of replacement. Obviously we saw how a new manager turned that around; those same players are now (in this very thread!) being used as a benchmark to measure the quality of other squads.

Monaco's squad is of course no where near the quality of ours, but that's not really the point. The measure of a manager's success (for me, anyways) has always been simple: Does he get the most out of the squad at his disposal? Are his players performing at or above their combined potential? Does he produce a team that's greater than the sum of its individual parts? Do players improve and/or get closer to realizing their potential under his charge? If you can answer yes to most of those questions, then the manager's doing fine, and isn't the problem. But if you have to say that....No, he's not getting the most out of the squad at his disposal...No, his players aren't performing at or above their potential...No, his team isn't greater than the sum of its parts...No, his players aren't improving and/or realizing their potential - If that's how you have to answer, then the manager IS part of the problem. And so on...you get the point.

All that to say: It's possible to acknowledge that a squad has a number of deficiencies while simultaneously acknowledging that the one in charge isn't doing anything to help matters. Are Monaco under Kovac performing at their best potential? Is it inconceivable to think that a different manager could get more out of those same players?
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Re: French football

Postby Fénix » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:17 pm

The club since the 2013/2014 was doing great. They immediately returned to the top of French football with huge investments in quality players and names after they spent 2 seasons in Ligue 2.
But after 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 when they sold almost everything that brought them glory and beauty, they finished 2018/2019 at 17th place, almost getting relegated back to Ligue 2.

Coaches can't do anything since the strategy of the club was changed and put on a completely wrong track.

Last season they finished 9th because the championship was stopped 10 matchdays before the end. Who knows how it would end just as Lyon that finished 7th complained about the season end, but I don't think they would occupy top 4 with Robert Moreno.

If I were Dmitry Rybolovlev, I would return to the first recipe that brought fast expansion of Monaco after the Ligue 2 episode 2011-2013.
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Re: French football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:43 pm

Kovac is a clown of a coach. Get over it and stop trying to make excuses for him.

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Re: French football

Postby aterford » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:05 pm

Fénix wrote:The club since the 2013/2014 was doing great. They immediately returned to the top of French football with huge investments in quality players and names after they spent 2 seasons in Ligue 2.
But after 2016/2017 and 2017/2018 when they sold almost everything that brought them glory and beauty, they finished 2018/2019 at 17th place, almost getting relegated back to Ligue 2.

Coaches can't do anything since the strategy of the club was changed and put on a completely wrong track.

Last season they finished 9th because the championship was stopped 10 matchdays before the end. Who knows how it would end just as Lyon that finished 7th complained about the season end, but I don't think they would occupy top 4 with Robert Moreno.

If I were Dmitry Rybolovlev, I would return to the first recipe that brought fast expansion of Monaco after the Ligue 2 episode 2011-2013.


Simple yes or no will suffice:

1. Is Kovac currently getting the most out of the players at his disposal?
2. Would it be impossible for another manager to get better results than Kovac has managed, with the same squad?
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Re: French football

Postby Fénix » Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:10 am

1. I don't know. Those who regularly follow Monaco can say that. I think he can and should do better, still not that better as some think.
2. No.

The reasons I've mentioned are simply killing the club. Robert Moreno was fired for headless reasons and Kovač hired instead of him to bring them something that none of the 3 last coaches could meet.

Expectations are extremely unrealistic. They know what they have to do because this isn't going to work.

PSG are too strong for them, even this Lyon. Rennes, Lille and Marseille as well.
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Re: French football

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:31 pm

Kovac apparently changed to 4.2.3.1 & his team is winning vs Bordeaux 4.0
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Re: French football

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:09 pm

Tuchel is already with one hand on his luggage...
Allegri - Pochettino - T.Motta are the favorites to succeed him
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