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Spanish football

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Re: Spanish football

Postby Fénix » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:25 am

Ten Hag should avoid Barcelona if he wants to remain clean. :) Ajax are the best place to continue your coaching development.

Setién didn't make himself lucky after Betis.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:29 am

Fénix wrote:Ten Hag should avoid Barcelona if he wants to remain clean. :) Ajax are the best place to continue your coaching development.

Setién didn't make himself lucky after Betis.
They are also mentioning Pocchettino.
I don't think that he will refuse if they call him, Espanyol or not.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:37 pm

cuil wrote:The big problem with them is, the people in charge of Barca really still thinks it's a coach problem when it's not.

They really still be thinking changing the coach will "make Barca great again"

Luis Enrique, Valdverde, Setien... meanwhile they got not one, not two, but three 100m bench warmers.

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True, but tbh it kinda is a coach problem. I mean, none of those would get a position coaching another top team. Probably the problem is insisting on having an Spanish coach. There are just not any good Spanish coaches other than Guardiola.

They should get either Erik ten Hag or Tuchel (unless they can convince Guardiola to go back).

They 100mn bench warmers kinda suck, but the coaching does too. They don't have a squad that can rival our or those of other top teams, but neither is their squad bad enough to get thumped 8-2.

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Re: Spanish football

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:04 pm

Have a feeling that Atl will sack Simeone
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Re: Spanish football

Postby #12 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:58 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Have a feeling that Atl will sack Simeone
Maybe the they will start actually playing...

To this day the games I blame Guardiola the most for...

Knowing the fucker - and especially US - he probably chooses to play properly in semis NOW...
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Re: Spanish football

Postby aterford » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:42 pm

Yeah, they really have quite a few fundamental changes that will need addressed. I wouldn't say their problems started with the departure of Neymar, but it was certainly a big accelerant. They felt with Neymar gone they needed to immediately buy a "star" to replace him and I don't think that was the case. I know they want to trust their La Masia talents, but IMO right there they would have been MUCH better off to buy a handful of talents or "potentials" or just younger players for multiple positions rather than spend all that money on one or two players, one of whom wasn't really ever a proper fit. And for me, really they should have done more to keep Enrique. I know many didn't rate him a ton but he's been better than those who followed, and really even Valverde was not so bad, just largely a scapegoat...and heck, I don't even think Setien is as awful as it looks, but this was just a poisonous situation for him, I don't think there were really many coaches who could've stepped in and succeeded.

And then there is Messi. I wouldn't say Messi is a "problem" - or if he is, he's a "problem" that every team would like to have, but I DO think there's probably a case to be made that Messi will need to leave before they can start to get better. I think the trouble that they're finding themselves in is that IMO the thing the TEAM needs to get set up for the future is not the same as what is needed to build for another UCL with Messi. Messi's in his prime but probably at or approaching the tail-end of it. And so you don't want to do a "rebuild" or surround Messi with a "project" - you need "win now" players. In that regard, getting those "stars" kind of makes sense. But unfortunately I think the thing that the team needs IS a proper rebuild or "project", starting from the ground up with new talents. So what the team needs long-term is not the same as what it needs for short-term success with Messi. and I don't blame Messi, it's the result of poor planning for years now, but this is what it is. So it does feel like for both the club and the player the best thing is probably for Messi to move on. They have clung for too long to too many of the "old guard" players (I think I read they said yesterday they fielded the oldest average XI in UCL history?) and it's put them in that position where they DO need to rebuild but can't really afford to blow it all up while Messi is still there. So the simplest solution is that Messi should move on. (And I think that's best for him too. Even with a "rebuild" I can't see Barca being close to a real UCL contender for a couple of years now)

At the end of the day Barcelona are really European royalty and have gobs of cash and will almost certainly bounce back long-term. Like United or other giants, I do think there is a point where you kind of get to be 'too big to fail' and it's not like they're likely to utterly unravel and get relegated or something. They will get back to that top level at some point (IMO), but it's going to take some time, some hard decisions, and some pretty painful years, probably.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby #12 » Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:52 pm

In all fairness, before Messi, they were barely - forgive the pun - mes que medio...
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Re: Spanish football

Postby Fénix » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:11 pm

I will never forget what Joan Laporta did when Real Madrid stole Beckham from the Catalans, Alex Ferguson didn't want to pay some 5 extra million € for Ronaldinho and then Laporta bought the Brazilian, hired Frank Rijkaard, one year later added Samuel Eto'o, Deco, Ludovic Giuly, Rafa Marquez and the rest is history.
Ronaldinho converted them into winners till nowadays.

Guardiola did the rest to keep that path after 2 seasons where they declined, used Iniesta and Xavi brilliantly, liberated Messi from the Brazilian samba influence and the rest is history.

But since 2012 they became totally depended on Messi, it has had its advantages but also disadvantages.

When Messi ends his Barcelona career, many things will instantly change. Addiction will follow them for years.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby r10 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:44 am

#12 wrote:he probably chooses to play properly in semis NOW...
You were wrong as usual :twisted: :twisted:.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby #12 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:04 am

r10 wrote:
#12 wrote:he probably chooses to play properly in semis NOW...
You were wrong as usual :twisted: :twisted:.
Not true, he just didn’t make it there
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Re: Spanish football

Postby Firefox1234 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:18 pm

Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
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Re: Spanish football

Postby Fénix » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:22 pm

The Catalans have managed to break him. :D He rejected them 8 months ago and now he is joining them. COVID pandemic and postponed Euro played their part.

Joan Laporta is the one they need back.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:27 pm

Serious question:

In times like this with them HEAVILY struggling financially already... Dies anyone think they can free enough money to build a serious team? I mean, they’ve got a few talents but will that be enough...?
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Re: Spanish football

Postby Fénix » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:30 pm

#12 wrote:In times like this with them HEAVILY struggling financially already... Dies anyone think they can free enough money to build a serious team? I mean, they’ve got a few talents but will that be enough...?

No, I don't think so.
Even if they lose Messi's 60 or 80 million € heavy contract, Suárez returns to Ajax, Coutinho, Dembélé and Busquets leave...

It takes more than one season to fix 5-6 years of bad work.
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Re: Spanish football

Postby #12 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:36 pm

Fénix wrote:
#12 wrote:In times like this with them HEAVILY struggling financially already... Dies anyone think they can free enough money to build a serious team? I mean, they’ve got a few talents but will that be enough...?

No, I don't think so.
Even if they lose Messi's 60 or 80 million € heavy contract, Suárez returns to Ajax, Coutinho, Dembélé and Busquets leave...

It takes more than one season to fix 5-6 years of bad work.
Don’t say that as a Bayern fan

Thing is they would have to sell players at a HUGE loss, while it won’t be easy to find what they're looking for either...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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