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European Football

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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:33 pm

Lahmies wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Also whatever happens to fuck UEFA/FIFA?

The future state of this change is the same football as we know it today, just without those corrupt regulators. Maybe we face a short-term split between the two competitions with neither of them having that much meaning which will be very unpleasant, but that’s a pretty small cost to get rid of UEFA/FIFA.


... you think super league will be less corrupt with club presidents at the helm? fucking florentino perez? dfkm.
Dude, FIFA gave a World Cup to Qatar, who had no stadiums, no population, no team (or, what, they gave VISAS to a bunch of Brazileans to become Qataris? xD), despite being an horrific human rights abuser and haven't withdrawn the WC despite widespread reports of workers dying in the contraction sites. It just can't get worse than that level of corruption, not even having Kassai referee every single match.

Btw, I recall seeing an opinion study once that found that FIFA was regarded as the single most corrupt organization on planet earth. Lol.
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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:54 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Mani wrote:I’m not really surprised to see that the majority of people who support this project are non europeans. They don’t understand the significance of football to local communities across Europe nor the history and tradition. For them a big show sounds good which is understandable
I'm indeed cognizant of how Europeans view sports. I just think they are living in an idealized romantic past that resembles more amateur sports (particularly Germans) than a modern entertainment industry. And let's be clear about something; football IS an entertainment industry, like cinema or TV. It is not a religion, even if it attracts that level of attachment, or a political movement or even some embodiment of "community". This is not so much a judgement call, but rather an observation of what things are.
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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:54 pm

Lahmies wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Also whatever happens to fuck UEFA/FIFA?

The future state of this change is the same football as we know it today, just without those corrupt regulators. Maybe we face a short-term split between the two competitions with neither of them having that much meaning which will be very unpleasant, but that’s a pretty small cost to get rid of UEFA/FIFA.


... you think super league will be less corrupt with club presidents at the helm? fucking florentino perez? dfkm.
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Re: European Football

Postby munchen99 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:55 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:I'm not fully understanding your innuendo, perhaps you could be more explicit. Anyway, IMO you are "entitled" to any money your capable of generating. Proponents of the ESL are not "crying" for more money, they're earning it by creating more value. There's nothing wrong with that.



They aren't creating more value, they are leeching off the value created by the national leagues and then taking away all profits elsewhere and consolidating it as a cartel. THis is the anti-thesis of free market capitalism. Socialism for the rich.
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:57 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:[quote="#12"][quote="PunkCapitalist"][quote="FCBayernMunchen"]The only sensible ex-footballer in our club management and he’s leaving us soon. :(

Image

Image

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This is why BuLi is and will remain stuck as a second-rate league. It makes no sense that your first instinct is to cut costs when there is a clear opportunity to enhance revenue.
Yeah, I‘m sorry but I thought about that today and didn’t post something not to be culturally insensitive(cause it seems to be a SE traut to cry fir more money that you deem yourself entitled to without being able to HANDLE money...) : people who conduct business that way are idiots...

Revenue is nice... But neither is it in itself sustainable, nor the model of constantly inflating it... At some point, it‘s over... And you have to consider business associates as well... We‘re talking about a bunch if greedy egoists... Whichever way this goes, there WILL be war at some point...


I'm not fully understanding your innuendo, perhaps you could be more explicit. Anyway, IMO you are "entitled" to any money your capable of generating. Proponents of the ESL are not "crying" for more money, they're earning it by creating more value. There's nothing wrong with that.[/quote]How exactly? Where’s the value that what feels like you and another 0.99 per cent of the followers of this sport add as opposed to the other 99%?[/quote]I'm fairly sure what you're stating is just not gonna be the case. At the moment everyone is reacting viscerally, but give it a couple of years and everyone will love the concept.[/quote]Wanna bet? I will cancel any membership with a service supporting this - and quite frankly, you either still haven’t understood the concept or like an esoteric nut believe in some kind of self cleansing...
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:58 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Lahmies wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Also whatever happens to fuck UEFA/FIFA?

The future state of this change is the same football as we know it today, just without those corrupt regulators. Maybe we face a short-term split between the two competitions with neither of them having that much meaning which will be very unpleasant, but that’s a pretty small cost to get rid of UEFA/FIFA.


... you think super league will be less corrupt with club presidents at the helm? fucking florentino perez? dfkm.
Dude, FIFA gave a World Cup to Qatar, who had no stadiums, no population, no team (or, what, they gave VISAS to a bunch of Brazileans to become Qataris? xD), despite being an horrific human rights abuser and haven't withdrawn the WC despite widespread reports of workers dying in the contraction sites. It just can't get worse than that level of corruption, not even having Kassai referee every single match.

Btw, I recall seeing an opinion study once that found that FIFA was regarded as the single most corrupt organization on planet earth. Lol.


You do realize people can criticize fifa and uefa and still oppose this ridiculous league, right? literally nobody thinks they're saints.
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:00 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Lahmies wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:[quote="Lahmies"][quote="calahan"]I don't understand why people don't discuss the funding more here. JPMorgan, being an investment bank just dumps "a couple of billions" on a sport they don't even call by it's original name is already such a huge red flag that the deal should be cancelled. Why would American investment bank invest on a sport that's not in top-3 in US unless they know there's gonna be or pre-agreed deals made with banks they've invested in or know that their investment to the league will generate profits?

There are rumors of platforms such as Amazon, Disney and Facebook having an agreement with the league. So there will be no competition of tv/streaming rights since US companies have those already, fan merch most likely by Nike and agreement in place etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that this is just an American takeover and driving force behind this is these three English clubs owned by the Americans. Americans are not making as much money as they would have and salaries and transfer fees skyrocketing means something needs to be done. Most likely this has been planned behind the scenes for some years already with streaming services being the standard way of watching in some countries, mobile devices and the dominance of Amazon.

This financial problem would NOT have existed without the dirty dozen. They (and PSG) are the real criminals for the transfer and salary fees. If you look at the Top-50 most expensive transfer by Transfermarkt, 44/50 is made by the dirty dozen. And in the same time Barca and Real have a combined debt amount of over two billion dollars. So the problem why transfer and salary fees started to grow uncontrollably are the US-owners, Chelsea owner and Arab owners. If you throw PSG in the mix, you'd get 48/50 most expensive transfers.

How Perez probably sees this is that we need to make more money so we can make even more expensive transfers to get the best players and fails to see that the direction should the the opposite. And if the superleague teams make more money then every single non-superleague team becomes a feeder team since players are humans and humans are greedy and with the more money in their league, they can outpay any non-superleague team. And he has the nerve that he's doing this for the good of football.

Barca and Real are both bankrupt currently. This is their last straw basically. That's what the US investors saw here. This is their chance. If they can get those in, they will get two of the top-5 names recognized around the world and they'd be solid. Italian clubs are useless but in debt too so easy to get the on board. English clubs were half already on board being US-owned and the few more needed this to make it financially and to be a founder since they might not make it with their performance or would get relegated. Now they get a steady income. I assume ManCity was the only one feeling cornered, gave in and joined since the other big ones will be leaving anyway. They have no financial problems and will not have any. PSG is out only because it's owner has invested heavily on UCL tv-rights AND Qatar World cup is coming. But I would bet anything I have that if this thing flies, they will join the deserterleague at last 2024.

And from the fan's perspective it would be great for the first, maybe the second season too to see the big ones clash week in week out but after that Man United becomes the new Mainz and so on. That league will not have the magic that makes ordinary people watch UCL games. The friend I have that don't like football enjoy UCL somehow anyway.

So my point in all this rambling is that this is most likely a financial coup from the US investors to be able to define all the rules, make all the contracts and own all the rights to anything related to the teams and the league. And this will generate insane amounts of money so that they can easily pay the higher shares for the clubs. Also Americans know how to market things so this league will be marketed the way the world have never seen before to all over the globe. This is the biggest game on the planet and they know but they don't have a share of the income. Now they can dictate everything and grab the money. All they need is dumb presidents in famous clubs in deep debts. And Perez raises his hand.

Thank you.


Best post I've read on this forum this year.
For what? For stating the obvious? That JP Morgan is investing on the expectation of profits? Seriously? Duh!

Everytime I read the word "greed" in this forum, I cringe. There's absolutely nothing wrong in wanting more money. Actually, in a free society, generating more money means you're creating more value for consumers. That's good. It enhances welfare.


And you believe revenue will keep growing infinitely as those clubs keep spending more and more? Who will pay for that? Do broadcasters have infinte pockets? We should be lowering costs, such as massive transfers and salaries, not trying to create more growth and collapsing the whole fucking system. You're fucking delusional.[/quote]I think there can be moderate stable growth once the lower hanging fruits (in terms of revenue enhancement) are taken. Don't get me wrong, i don't think club's should all be as irresponsible as Barcelona, but neither should they be as prudish and debt-averse as Bayern.

Someone was discussing the effect of leverage over valuations, mainly emphasizing tax shields. That's all cool and part of the story, but from an economics POV there is something more relevant which is that if you refuse to take debt, you're probably leaving some high return investment opportunities on the table, unexploited because you simply have an irrational hatred of debt.[/quote]Yeah when you play CL every year and reach the semis and the pandemic apparently puts you in severe danger of becoming irrelevant and bankrupt, it‘s not irrational anymore, you know?
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:02 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Well they do have a massive untapped pocket if they market to the rest if the world (China and so forth) which was always the idea. It’s a join or die situation and as I’ve said it’s a matter of time until Bayern join. The only reason PSG are not in is because the owners also own the TV rights for the UEFA competition in the Middle East, and they’ll cave in too once it’s more certain that there will be more demand for it than for CL.

The only thing that’s messed up (or rather poorly communicated/marketed) is the lack of promotion-relegation model. They’ll rectify that easily, put that in eventually and make it a decent competition. They’ll know that even an El Clasico every week would get boring. They know or will quickly learn that some competition mixed in is good to follow the money and have a refined model.
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Re: European Football

Postby munchen99 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:04 pm

Lahmies wrote:You do realize people can criticize fifa and uefa and still oppose this ridiculous league, right? literally nobody thinks they're saints.


Exactly. Literally everyone here is anti-FIFA and UEFA. But we all can smell the grubby money men coming in to steal what doesn't belong to them and ruin it for everyone so that they may profit in the short-term. This isn't one side or the other. We have a shitty governing body and then we have barbarians trying to break down the walls and burn the city down. Sorry but we aren't giving up the walls to the barbarians because the shitty governing body play too many internationals... get real.
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:06 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Also whatever happens to fuck UEFA/FIFA?

The future state of this change is the same football as we know it today, just without those corrupt regulators. Maybe we face a short-term split between the two competitions with neither of them having that much meaning which will be very unpleasant, but that’s a pretty small cost to get rid of UEFA/FIFA.
I dislike UEFA as much as anyone but I don’t think it’s possible to have an extensive promotion/relegation system with multiple divisions without a regulating body.

There will be a regulating body, in the form of an association of clubs rather than a “non-profit”. At least Perez and co are honest about chasing money.
Where is he honest when he says they‘re "saving" the sport?
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Re: European Football

Postby MUTU » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:46 pm

At the end of the day, they want to take the matches we dream about, spend all day thinking about, send a shiver down our spines when we hear the CL tune knowing our team will either progress or get eliminated, and turn it into the mundane. These people must really hate emotions in football. They also want to shorten the match time from 90 minutes. It's a special kind of twisted hate and betrayal to the beautiful game.
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:52 pm

Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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Re: European Football

Postby Valerio » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:59 pm

#12 wrote:https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1384563875018952709?s=20

sound perfectly rational XD
You sign a 23years deal after months of work and talking and quit 2 days after cause some fans are crying and UEFA/FIFA/PL is threatening you?
They knew since the start it was going to be a war. 12 vs the rest.

Sorry I tend to doubt such media news
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:59 pm

Also, if this thing goes forward (and I don't think it will), these clubs will have the same problems in a few years' time. The instant clash flow will raise prices of transfers and wages even more. Broadcasters won't be able to follow, fans won't pay a fortune to watch games. Ta da! More debt, except it will be worse because they brought everyone down in the process.

But thankfully, it looks like it will never happen. British government says it will intervene, FIFA/UEFA will take it to court AND inject more money into the CL, public opinion is massively opposing it, and clubs with less debt like Chelsea and City are already reconsidering it.

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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:04 pm

Valerio wrote:
#12 wrote:https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1384563875018952709?s=20

sound perfectly rational XD
You sign a 23years deal after months of work and talking and quit 2 days after cause some fans are crying and UEFA/FIFA/PL is threatening you?
They knew since the start it was going to be a war. 12 vs the rest.

Sorry I tend to doubt such media news
I merely posted a tweet - from a rather reliable source - nothing more...

But there IS sone noise and with 12 egocentrics there‘s also room for disagreement... Whether they knew or not, they still have different interests and mindsets welded shut by money
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