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European Football

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Re: European Football

Postby Ottomeister87 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:03 pm

IT is greed if you cry about fucking wanting more money, hating the small ones as in ''matches arent attractive against them'' and because you cant handle your own finances so you want a bigger piece of the pie while others should get nothing anymore. Dont tell me that is enhancing frickin welfare. #-o
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:03 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Lahmies wrote:
calahan wrote:I don't understand why people don't discuss the funding more here. JPMorgan, being an investment bank just dumps "a couple of billions" on a sport they don't even call by it's original name is already such a huge red flag that the deal should be cancelled. Why would American investment bank invest on a sport that's not in top-3 in US unless they know there's gonna be or pre-agreed deals made with banks they've invested in or know that their investment to the league will generate profits?

There are rumors of platforms such as Amazon, Disney and Facebook having an agreement with the league. So there will be no competition of tv/streaming rights since US companies have those already, fan merch most likely by Nike and agreement in place etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that this is just an American takeover and driving force behind this is these three English clubs owned by the Americans. Americans are not making as much money as they would have and salaries and transfer fees skyrocketing means something needs to be done. Most likely this has been planned behind the scenes for some years already with streaming services being the standard way of watching in some countries, mobile devices and the dominance of Amazon.

This financial problem would NOT have existed without the dirty dozen. They (and PSG) are the real criminals for the transfer and salary fees. If you look at the Top-50 most expensive transfer by Transfermarkt, 44/50 is made by the dirty dozen. And in the same time Barca and Real have a combined debt amount of over two billion dollars. So the problem why transfer and salary fees started to grow uncontrollably are the US-owners, Chelsea owner and Arab owners. If you throw PSG in the mix, you'd get 48/50 most expensive transfers.

How Perez probably sees this is that we need to make more money so we can make even more expensive transfers to get the best players and fails to see that the direction should the the opposite. And if the superleague teams make more money then every single non-superleague team becomes a feeder team since players are humans and humans are greedy and with the more money in their league, they can outpay any non-superleague team. And he has the nerve that he's doing this for the good of football.

Barca and Real are both bankrupt currently. This is their last straw basically. That's what the US investors saw here. This is their chance. If they can get those in, they will get two of the top-5 names recognized around the world and they'd be solid. Italian clubs are useless but in debt too so easy to get the on board. English clubs were half already on board being US-owned and the few more needed this to make it financially and to be a founder since they might not make it with their performance or would get relegated. Now they get a steady income. I assume ManCity was the only one feeling cornered, gave in and joined since the other big ones will be leaving anyway. They have no financial problems and will not have any. PSG is out only because it's owner has invested heavily on UCL tv-rights AND Qatar World cup is coming. But I would bet anything I have that if this thing flies, they will join the deserterleague at last 2024.

And from the fan's perspective it would be great for the first, maybe the second season too to see the big ones clash week in week out but after that Man United becomes the new Mainz and so on. That league will not have the magic that makes ordinary people watch UCL games. The friend I have that don't like football enjoy UCL somehow anyway.

So my point in all this rambling is that this is most likely a financial coup from the US investors to be able to define all the rules, make all the contracts and own all the rights to anything related to the teams and the league. And this will generate insane amounts of money so that they can easily pay the higher shares for the clubs. Also Americans know how to market things so this league will be marketed the way the world have never seen before to all over the globe. This is the biggest game on the planet and they know but they don't have a share of the income. Now they can dictate everything and grab the money. All they need is dumb presidents in famous clubs in deep debts. And Perez raises his hand.

Thank you.


Best post I've read on this forum this year.
For what? For stating the obvious? That JP Morgan is investing on the expectation of profits? Seriously? Duh!

Everytime I read the word "greed" in this forum, I cringe. There's absolutely nothing wrong in wanting more money. Actually, in a free society, generating more money means you're creating more value for consumers. That's good. It enhances welfare.


And you believe revenue will keep growing infinitely as those clubs keep spending more and more? Who will pay for that? Do broadcasters have infinte pockets? :lol: We should be lowering costs, such as massive transfers and salaries, not trying to create more growth and collapsing the whole fucking system. You're fucking delusional.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:04 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:IT is greed if you cry about fucking wanting more money, hating the small ones as in ''matches arent attractive against them'' and because you cant handle your own finances so you want a bigger piece of the pie while others should get nothing anymore. Dont tell me that is enhancing frickin welfare. #-o


dude probably believes in trickle down economics as well :lol:
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:05 pm

Anyways. The farse is falling already.

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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:05 pm

Lahmies wrote:@punkcaptalist

with all due respect. fuck off
xD no hard feelings, we can disagree without making it personal.
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Re: European Football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:07 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:This is why BuLi is and will remain stuck as a second-rate league. It makes no sense that your first instinct is to cut costs when there is a clear opportunity to enhance revenue.

I've criticised our board a hundred million times for their spending and also criticised 50%+1 but it is through this approach that we have won more CL trophies than 10 out of 12 so-called Super League teams with bigger budgets, in our history, in this millennium, and in the past 10 years.

The other Bundesliga clubs won't get any money (except maybe Dortmund) from the Super League system anyway so it won't make any difference to them in terms of not being second-rate. But at least they can play football without having to backstab their fans and EMPLOYEES (including players and coaches) because they were incapable of not accumulating hundreds of millions of debt to get eliminated in the group stage (Inter, Man United), not qualify (Arsenal, Spurs), or lose against Porto, Ajax, and Lyon (Juve, Real Madrid).
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:07 pm

#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:[quote="PunkCapitalist"][quote="FCBayernMunchen"]The only sensible ex-footballer in our club management and he’s leaving us soon. :(

Image

Image

Image
This is why BuLi is and will remain stuck as a second-rate league. It makes no sense that your first instinct is to cut costs when there is a clear opportunity to enhance revenue.
Yeah, I‘m sorry but I thought about that today and didn’t post something not to be culturally insensitive(cause it seems to be a SE traut to cry fir more money that you deem yourself entitled to without being able to HANDLE money...) : people who conduct business that way are idiots...

Revenue is nice... But neither is it in itself sustainable, nor the model of constantly inflating it... At some point, it‘s over... And you have to consider business associates as well... We‘re talking about a bunch if greedy egoists... Whichever way this goes, there WILL be war at some point...


I'm not fully understanding your innuendo, perhaps you could be more explicit. Anyway, IMO you are "entitled" to any money your capable of generating. Proponents of the ESL are not "crying" for more money, they're earning it by creating more value. There's nothing wrong with that.[/quote]How exactly? Where’s the value that what feels like you and another 0.99 per cent of the followers of this sport add as opposed to the other 99%?[/quote]I'm fairly sure what you're stating is just not gonna be the case. At the moment everyone is reacting viscerally, but give it a couple of years and everyone will love the concept.
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Re: European Football

Postby T4L10N » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:08 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:


If this happens, hope it happens WITHOUT those 12 clubs. Fuck their greed. Let 'em go bust.


Exactly, they shouldnt be admitted back like nothing happened. Ban them and let their players choose new clubs as free agents so that this serves as an example.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:09 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Lahmies wrote:@punkcaptalist

with all due respect. fuck off
xD no hard feelings, we can disagree without making it personal.


You're right about that. Sorry for calling you delusional two minutes ago.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:11 pm



This whole thing is gonna collapse before it even begins. Man city, then chelsea. :coffee:
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:12 pm

Lahmies wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
Lahmies wrote:[quote="calahan"]I don't understand why people don't discuss the funding more here. JPMorgan, being an investment bank just dumps "a couple of billions" on a sport they don't even call by it's original name is already such a huge red flag that the deal should be cancelled. Why would American investment bank invest on a sport that's not in top-3 in US unless they know there's gonna be or pre-agreed deals made with banks they've invested in or know that their investment to the league will generate profits?

There are rumors of platforms such as Amazon, Disney and Facebook having an agreement with the league. So there will be no competition of tv/streaming rights since US companies have those already, fan merch most likely by Nike and agreement in place etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that this is just an American takeover and driving force behind this is these three English clubs owned by the Americans. Americans are not making as much money as they would have and salaries and transfer fees skyrocketing means something needs to be done. Most likely this has been planned behind the scenes for some years already with streaming services being the standard way of watching in some countries, mobile devices and the dominance of Amazon.

This financial problem would NOT have existed without the dirty dozen. They (and PSG) are the real criminals for the transfer and salary fees. If you look at the Top-50 most expensive transfer by Transfermarkt, 44/50 is made by the dirty dozen. And in the same time Barca and Real have a combined debt amount of over two billion dollars. So the problem why transfer and salary fees started to grow uncontrollably are the US-owners, Chelsea owner and Arab owners. If you throw PSG in the mix, you'd get 48/50 most expensive transfers.

How Perez probably sees this is that we need to make more money so we can make even more expensive transfers to get the best players and fails to see that the direction should the the opposite. And if the superleague teams make more money then every single non-superleague team becomes a feeder team since players are humans and humans are greedy and with the more money in their league, they can outpay any non-superleague team. And he has the nerve that he's doing this for the good of football.

Barca and Real are both bankrupt currently. This is their last straw basically. That's what the US investors saw here. This is their chance. If they can get those in, they will get two of the top-5 names recognized around the world and they'd be solid. Italian clubs are useless but in debt too so easy to get the on board. English clubs were half already on board being US-owned and the few more needed this to make it financially and to be a founder since they might not make it with their performance or would get relegated. Now they get a steady income. I assume ManCity was the only one feeling cornered, gave in and joined since the other big ones will be leaving anyway. They have no financial problems and will not have any. PSG is out only because it's owner has invested heavily on UCL tv-rights AND Qatar World cup is coming. But I would bet anything I have that if this thing flies, they will join the deserterleague at last 2024.

And from the fan's perspective it would be great for the first, maybe the second season too to see the big ones clash week in week out but after that Man United becomes the new Mainz and so on. That league will not have the magic that makes ordinary people watch UCL games. The friend I have that don't like football enjoy UCL somehow anyway.

So my point in all this rambling is that this is most likely a financial coup from the US investors to be able to define all the rules, make all the contracts and own all the rights to anything related to the teams and the league. And this will generate insane amounts of money so that they can easily pay the higher shares for the clubs. Also Americans know how to market things so this league will be marketed the way the world have never seen before to all over the globe. This is the biggest game on the planet and they know but they don't have a share of the income. Now they can dictate everything and grab the money. All they need is dumb presidents in famous clubs in deep debts. And Perez raises his hand.

Thank you.


Best post I've read on this forum this year.
For what? For stating the obvious? That JP Morgan is investing on the expectation of profits? Seriously? Duh!

Everytime I read the word "greed" in this forum, I cringe. There's absolutely nothing wrong in wanting more money. Actually, in a free society, generating more money means you're creating more value for consumers. That's good. It enhances welfare.


And you believe revenue will keep growing infinitely as those clubs keep spending more and more? Who will pay for that? Do broadcasters have infinte pockets? We should be lowering costs, such as massive transfers and salaries, not trying to create more growth and collapsing the whole fucking system. You're fucking delusional.[/quote]I think there can be moderate stable growth once the lower hanging fruits (in terms of revenue enhancement) are taken. Don't get me wrong, i don't think club's should all be as irresponsible as Barcelona, but neither should they be as prudish and debt-averse as Bayern.

Someone was discussing the effect of leverage over valuations, mainly emphasizing tax shields. That's all cool and part of the story, but from an economics POV there is something more relevant which is that if you refuse to take debt, you're probably leaving some high return investment opportunities on the table, unexploited because you simply have an irrational hatred of debt.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:13 pm

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Re: European Football

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:13 pm

Well they do have a massive untapped pocket if they market to the rest if the world (China and so forth) which was always the idea. It’s a join or die situation and as I’ve said it’s a matter of time until Bayern join. The only reason PSG are not in is because the owners also own the TV rights for the UEFA competition in the Middle East, and they’ll cave in too once it’s more certain that there will be more demand for it than for CL.

The only thing that’s messed up (or rather poorly communicated/marketed) is the lack of promotion-relegation model. They’ll rectify that easily, put that in eventually and make it a decent competition. They’ll know that even an El Clasico every week would get boring. They know or will quickly learn that some competition mixed in is good to follow the money and have a refined model.
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Re: European Football

Postby aterford » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:15 pm

Can anyone find for me even just one current player who has spoken out *in favor* of the proposed Super League?

Does that tell us anything? I don't know...
God Bless Thomas Müller
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Re: European Football

Postby Mani » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:16 pm

I’m not really surprised to see that the majority of people who support this project are non europeans. They don’t understand the significance of football to local communities across Europe nor the history and tradition. For them a big show sounds good which is understandable
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