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European Football

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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:22 pm

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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:22 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
This is the worst outcome possible. Two separate competitions with some top teams on one and others on the other. For me, the real competition will be the one that features the most out of Madrid, Bayern, Barça, Liverpool and Shitty.
Good for you, for me it will be the one that‘s actually, however tiny the portion, about sports...
Who the fuck was Liverpool 5 years ago? Even 4!
Who the fuck is Barca now?
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:23 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
This is the worst outcome possible. Two separate competitions with some top teams on one and others on the other. For me, the real competition will be the one that features the most out of Madrid, Bayern, Barça, Liverpool and Shitty.


Just pick one of those teams to support already and go. It's just entertainment, right?
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Re: European Football

Postby PowerHouse » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:27 pm

calahan wrote:I don't understand why people don't discuss the funding more here. JPMorgan, being an investment bank just dumps "a couple of billions" on a sport they don't even call by it's original name is already such a huge red flag that the deal should be cancelled. Why would American investment bank invest on a sport that's not in top-3 in US unless they know there's gonna be or pre-agreed deals made with banks they've invested in or know that their investment to the league will generate profits?

There are rumors of platforms such as Amazon, Disney and Facebook having an agreement with the league. So there will be no competition of tv/streaming rights since US companies have those already, fan merch most likely by Nike and agreement in place etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that this is just an American takeover and driving force behind this is these three English clubs owned by the Americans. Americans are not making as much money as they would have and salaries and transfer fees skyrocketing means something needs to be done. Most likely this has been planned behind the scenes for some years already with streaming services being the standard way of watching in some countries, mobile devices and the dominance of Amazon.

This financial problem would NOT have existed without the dirty dozen. They (and PSG) are the real criminals for the transfer and salary fees. If you look at the Top-50 most expensive transfer by Transfermarkt, 44/50 is made by the dirty dozen. And in the same time Barca and Real have a combined debt amount of over two billion dollars. So the problem why transfer and salary fees started to grow uncontrollably are the US-owners, Chelsea owner and Arab owners. If you throw PSG in the mix, you'd get 48/50 most expensive transfers.

How Perez probably sees this is that we need to make more money so we can make even more expensive transfers to get the best players and fails to see that the direction should the the opposite. And if the superleague teams make more money then every single non-superleague team becomes a feeder team since players are humans and humans are greedy and with the more money in their league, they can outpay any non-superleague team. And he has the nerve that he's doing this for the good of football.

Barca and Real are both bankrupt currently. This is their last straw basically. That's what the US investors saw here. This is their chance. If they can get those in, they will get two of the top-5 names recognized around the world and they'd be solid. Italian clubs are useless but in debt too so easy to get the on board. English clubs were half already on board being US-owned and the few more needed this to make it financially and to be a founder since they might not make it with their performance or would get relegated. Now they get a steady income. I assume ManCity was the only one feeling cornered, gave in and joined since the other big ones will be leaving anyway. They have no financial problems and will not have any. PSG is out only because it's owner has invested heavily on UCL tv-rights AND Qatar World cup is coming. But I would bet anything I have that if this thing flies, they will join the deserterleague at last 2024.

And from the fan's perspective it would be great for the first, maybe the second season too to see the big ones clash week in week out but after that Man United becomes the new Mainz and so on. That league will not have the magic that makes ordinary people watch UCL games. The friend I have that don't like football enjoy UCL somehow anyway.

So my point in all this rambling is that this is most likely a financial coup from the US investors to be able to define all the rules, make all the contracts and own all the rights to anything related to the teams and the league. And this will generate insane amounts of money so that they can easily pay the higher shares for the clubs. Also Americans know how to market things so this league will be marketed the way the world have never seen before to all over the globe. This is the biggest game on the planet and they know but they don't have a share of the income. Now they can dictate everything and grab the money. All they need is dumb presidents in famous clubs in deep debts. And Perez raises his hand.

Thank you.
Very well put. This is all very believable and reading it is super upsetting. This is going to ruin the sport. That dam tyrant Perez. Ugh. I hope this falls flat on its face.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:27 pm

Those 12 clubs borrowed money they didn't have to pay exorbitant transfer fees and wages and now they cry and say they don't have enough money. Nah. Learn to manage a club or fuck off.
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Re: European Football

Postby T4L10N » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:27 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:This is the worst outcome possible. Two separate competitions with some top teams on one and others on the other. For me, the real competition will be the one that features the most out of Madrid, Bayern, Barça, Liverpool and Shitty.


Did you expect UEFA to bow down and just watch how its most important tournament and major revenue generator becomes inferior? As I see it, the organizers of ESL didnt predict that much backlashing. They will have to back off soon, but no idea how they gonna fix the current situation as the clubs involved should be fined/banned.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:29 pm

calahan wrote:I don't understand why people don't discuss the funding more here. JPMorgan, being an investment bank just dumps "a couple of billions" on a sport they don't even call by it's original name is already such a huge red flag that the deal should be cancelled. Why would American investment bank invest on a sport that's not in top-3 in US unless they know there's gonna be or pre-agreed deals made with banks they've invested in or know that their investment to the league will generate profits?

There are rumors of platforms such as Amazon, Disney and Facebook having an agreement with the league. So there will be no competition of tv/streaming rights since US companies have those already, fan merch most likely by Nike and agreement in place etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that this is just an American takeover and driving force behind this is these three English clubs owned by the Americans. Americans are not making as much money as they would have and salaries and transfer fees skyrocketing means something needs to be done. Most likely this has been planned behind the scenes for some years already with streaming services being the standard way of watching in some countries, mobile devices and the dominance of Amazon.

This financial problem would NOT have existed without the dirty dozen. They (and PSG) are the real criminals for the transfer and salary fees. If you look at the Top-50 most expensive transfer by Transfermarkt, 44/50 is made by the dirty dozen. And in the same time Barca and Real have a combined debt amount of over two billion dollars. So the problem why transfer and salary fees started to grow uncontrollably are the US-owners, Chelsea owner and Arab owners. If you throw PSG in the mix, you'd get 48/50 most expensive transfers.

How Perez probably sees this is that we need to make more money so we can make even more expensive transfers to get the best players and fails to see that the direction should the the opposite. And if the superleague teams make more money then every single non-superleague team becomes a feeder team since players are humans and humans are greedy and with the more money in their league, they can outpay any non-superleague team. And he has the nerve that he's doing this for the good of football.

Barca and Real are both bankrupt currently. This is their last straw basically. That's what the US investors saw here. This is their chance. If they can get those in, they will get two of the top-5 names recognized around the world and they'd be solid. Italian clubs are useless but in debt too so easy to get the on board. English clubs were half already on board being US-owned and the few more needed this to make it financially and to be a founder since they might not make it with their performance or would get relegated. Now they get a steady income. I assume ManCity was the only one feeling cornered, gave in and joined since the other big ones will be leaving anyway. They have no financial problems and will not have any. PSG is out only because it's owner has invested heavily on UCL tv-rights AND Qatar World cup is coming. But I would bet anything I have that if this thing flies, they will join the deserterleague at last 2024.

And from the fan's perspective it would be great for the first, maybe the second season too to see the big ones clash week in week out but after that Man United becomes the new Mainz and so on. That league will not have the magic that makes ordinary people watch UCL games. The friend I have that don't like football enjoy UCL somehow anyway.

So my point in all this rambling is that this is most likely a financial coup from the US investors to be able to define all the rules, make all the contracts and own all the rights to anything related to the teams and the league. And this will generate insane amounts of money so that they can easily pay the higher shares for the clubs. Also Americans know how to market things so this league will be marketed the way the world have never seen before to all over the globe. This is the biggest game on the planet and they know but they don't have a share of the income. Now they can dictate everything and grab the money. All they need is dumb presidents in famous clubs in deep debts. And Perez raises his hand.

Thank you.


Best post I've read on this forum this year.
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Re: European Football

Postby T4L10N » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:32 pm

Lahmies wrote:Those 12 clubs borrowed money they didn't have to pay exorbitant transfer fees and wages and now they cry and say they don't have enough money. Nah. Learn to manage a club or fuck off.


I dont remember Lazio/Parma/BVB crying like this even they were on the verge of bankruptcy in early 00s
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Re: European Football

Postby DRvad14 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:33 pm

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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:38 pm

#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:The only sensible ex-footballer in our club management and he’s leaving us soon. :(

Image

Image

Image
This is why BuLi is and will remain stuck as a second-rate league. It makes no sense that your first instinct is to cut costs when there is a clear opportunity to enhance revenue.
Yeah, I‘m sorry but I thought about that today and didn’t post something not to be culturally insensitive(cause it seems to be a SE traut to cry fir more money that you deem yourself entitled to without being able to HANDLE money...) : people who conduct business that way are idiots...

Revenue is nice... But neither is it in itself sustainable, nor the model of constantly inflating it... At some point, it‘s over... And you have to consider business associates as well... We‘re talking about a bunch if greedy egoists... Whichever way this goes, there WILL be war at some point...


I'm not fully understanding your innuendo, perhaps you could be more explicit. Anyway, IMO you are "entitled" to any money your capable of generating. Proponents of the ESL are not "crying" for more money, they're earning it by creating more value. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:42 pm

T4L10N wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:This is the worst outcome possible. Two separate competitions with some top teams on one and others on the other. For me, the real competition will be the one that features the most out of Madrid, Bayern, Barça, Liverpool and Shitty.


Did you expect UEFA to bow down and just watch how its most important tournament and major revenue generator becomes inferior? As I see it, the organizers of ESL didnt predict that much backlashing. They will have to back off soon, but no idea how they gonna fix the current situation as the clubs involved should be fined/banned.
Doubt it. From my POV, ESL has a higher likelihood of winning in the long-term. UEFA only has Bayern and PSG on their side, all other big clubs are on the other competition.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:48 pm

Lahmies wrote:
calahan wrote:I don't understand why people don't discuss the funding more here. JPMorgan, being an investment bank just dumps "a couple of billions" on a sport they don't even call by it's original name is already such a huge red flag that the deal should be cancelled. Why would American investment bank invest on a sport that's not in top-3 in US unless they know there's gonna be or pre-agreed deals made with banks they've invested in or know that their investment to the league will generate profits?

There are rumors of platforms such as Amazon, Disney and Facebook having an agreement with the league. So there will be no competition of tv/streaming rights since US companies have those already, fan merch most likely by Nike and agreement in place etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that this is just an American takeover and driving force behind this is these three English clubs owned by the Americans. Americans are not making as much money as they would have and salaries and transfer fees skyrocketing means something needs to be done. Most likely this has been planned behind the scenes for some years already with streaming services being the standard way of watching in some countries, mobile devices and the dominance of Amazon.

This financial problem would NOT have existed without the dirty dozen. They (and PSG) are the real criminals for the transfer and salary fees. If you look at the Top-50 most expensive transfer by Transfermarkt, 44/50 is made by the dirty dozen. And in the same time Barca and Real have a combined debt amount of over two billion dollars. So the problem why transfer and salary fees started to grow uncontrollably are the US-owners, Chelsea owner and Arab owners. If you throw PSG in the mix, you'd get 48/50 most expensive transfers.

How Perez probably sees this is that we need to make more money so we can make even more expensive transfers to get the best players and fails to see that the direction should the the opposite. And if the superleague teams make more money then every single non-superleague team becomes a feeder team since players are humans and humans are greedy and with the more money in their league, they can outpay any non-superleague team. And he has the nerve that he's doing this for the good of football.

Barca and Real are both bankrupt currently. This is their last straw basically. That's what the US investors saw here. This is their chance. If they can get those in, they will get two of the top-5 names recognized around the world and they'd be solid. Italian clubs are useless but in debt too so easy to get the on board. English clubs were half already on board being US-owned and the few more needed this to make it financially and to be a founder since they might not make it with their performance or would get relegated. Now they get a steady income. I assume ManCity was the only one feeling cornered, gave in and joined since the other big ones will be leaving anyway. They have no financial problems and will not have any. PSG is out only because it's owner has invested heavily on UCL tv-rights AND Qatar World cup is coming. But I would bet anything I have that if this thing flies, they will join the deserterleague at last 2024.

And from the fan's perspective it would be great for the first, maybe the second season too to see the big ones clash week in week out but after that Man United becomes the new Mainz and so on. That league will not have the magic that makes ordinary people watch UCL games. The friend I have that don't like football enjoy UCL somehow anyway.

So my point in all this rambling is that this is most likely a financial coup from the US investors to be able to define all the rules, make all the contracts and own all the rights to anything related to the teams and the league. And this will generate insane amounts of money so that they can easily pay the higher shares for the clubs. Also Americans know how to market things so this league will be marketed the way the world have never seen before to all over the globe. This is the biggest game on the planet and they know but they don't have a share of the income. Now they can dictate everything and grab the money. All they need is dumb presidents in famous clubs in deep debts. And Perez raises his hand.

Thank you.


Best post I've read on this forum this year.
For what? For stating the obvious? That JP Morgan is investing on the expectation of profits? Seriously? Duh!

Everytime I read the word "greed" in this forum, I cringe. There's absolutely nothing wrong in wanting more money. Actually, in a free society, generating more money means you're creating more value for consumers. That's good. It enhances welfare.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:00 pm

@punkcaptalist

with all due respect. fuck off
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:00 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:[quote="FCBayernMunchen"]The only sensible ex-footballer in our club management and he’s leaving us soon. :(

Image

Image

Image
This is why BuLi is and will remain stuck as a second-rate league. It makes no sense that your first instinct is to cut costs when there is a clear opportunity to enhance revenue.
Yeah, I‘m sorry but I thought about that today and didn’t post something not to be culturally insensitive(cause it seems to be a SE traut to cry fir more money that you deem yourself entitled to without being able to HANDLE money...) : people who conduct business that way are idiots...

Revenue is nice... But neither is it in itself sustainable, nor the model of constantly inflating it... At some point, it‘s over... And you have to consider business associates as well... We‘re talking about a bunch if greedy egoists... Whichever way this goes, there WILL be war at some point...


I'm not fully understanding your innuendo, perhaps you could be more explicit. Anyway, IMO you are "entitled" to any money your capable of generating. Proponents of the ESL are not "crying" for more money, they're earning it by creating more value. There's nothing wrong with that.[/quote]How exactly? Where’s the value that what feels like you and another 0.99 per cent of the followers of this sport add as opposed to the other 99%?
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Re: European Football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:01 pm



If this happens, hope it happens WITHOUT those 12 clubs. Fuck their greed. Let 'em go bust.
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