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European Football

Discussions on football in other leagues around Europe.
 

Re: European Football

Postby rthebest » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:39 am

Over the years media complained and emphasized on middle east oil money pumped into European football and ruining competition, but what they forgot to see was American owners bringing their capitalisms and the sense of entitlement into football. I know EUEFA and FIFA are not the best organizations , but what these so called super teams are proposing is a disgrace and to be honest they are making FIFA and UEFA the good guys here.
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:56 am

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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:57 am

Can't see tweet? Click here!

This is worrying. I can't help but feel like the board will cave because of the money. :roll:
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Re: European Football

Postby Lahmies » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:28 am

Can't see tweet? Click here!

oh boy. this is gonna get ugly.
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Re: European Football

Postby Dumbledore7 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:19 am

Definitely a lot to take at surface level, and can understand the many reasons why it's all bad.

But having taken a moment to think about this, it's not all bad. It might even be good. The negative reaction is obviously because it's new, but it always takes an unpopular decision to start a change.

Let's consider the intention - why? Because money of course, yes, but why is the super league model the best decision, according to these clubs, to follow the money? They know the reaction will be exactly like this, but they go through all the trouble anyway. I believe following the money is important, as these clubs argued, for the sport to be sustainable in the long term, so it's absolutely worth considering why.

So here's a theory.

This move must have been based on the American model which, without question, is the best commercial sporting infrastructure in the world. The NFL is basically a trade association of all the clubs, all with interest in the competition. No middle man with vested interest. In lieu of relegation/promotion, they have salary caps and major/minor leagues. The clubs can actually vote on issues.

Consider a hypothetical scenario where we have the domestic leagues, Champions League and international football as they are, but without the existence of the corrupt FIFA/UEFA. Nice, right? Well, that's the world we're heading towards with this.

It looks bad now because there's a split between "traditional" competitions vs. the "elite" super league, but make no mistake - eventually their goal is to run football. It's a forceful way of breaking away from FIFA/UEFA, which is what most people want anyway. It's not going to remain an association of 12 clubs, but of 100 clubs.

There will be small clubs joining in, who can't break through "organically" in the current system. They'll get more clubs to follow suit and eventually all of them (because, well, money). It's not just the single super league, they'll eventually have their "minor leagues" i.e. some version of the domestic competitions. They'll host international competitions eventually if there's demand for it, and even better because they wouldn't fit in international matches in the club schedule.

It will be a very rocky change, but it's inevitable and I think it'll be a better football landscape after the transition...if my theory is correct, anyway.
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Re: European Football

Postby sherpthederp » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:46 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:Definitely a lot to take at surface level, and can understand the many reasons why it's all bad.

But having taken a moment to think about this, it's not all bad. It might even be good. The negative reaction is obviously because it's new, but it always takes an unpopular decision to start a change.

Let's consider the intention - why? Because money of course, yes, but why is the super league model the best decision, according to these clubs, to follow the money? They know the reaction will be exactly like this, but they go through all the trouble anyway. I believe following the money is important, as these clubs argued, for the sport to be sustainable in the long term, so it's absolutely worth considering why.

So here's a theory.

This move must have been based on the American model which, without question, is the best commercial sporting infrastructure in the world. The NFL is basically a trade association of all the clubs, all with interest in the competition. No middle man with vested interest. In lieu of relegation/promotion, they have salary caps and major/minor leagues. The clubs can actually vote on issues.

Consider a hypothetical scenario where we have the domestic leagues, Champions League and international football as they are, but without the existence of the corrupt FIFA/UEFA. Nice, right? Well, that's the world we're heading towards with this.

It looks bad now because there's a split between "traditional" competitions vs. the "elite" super league, but make no mistake - eventually their goal is to run football. It's a forceful way of breaking away from FIFA/UEFA, which is what most people want anyway. It's not going to remain an association of 12 clubs, but of 100 clubs.

There will be small clubs joining in, who can't break through "organically" in the current system. They'll get more clubs to follow suit and eventually all of them (because, well, money). It's not just the single super league, they'll eventually have their "minor leagues" i.e. some version of the domestic competitions. They'll host international competitions eventually if there's demand for it, and even better because they wouldn't fit in international matches in the club schedule.

It will be a very rocky change, but it's inevitable and I think it'll be a better football landscape after the transition...if my theory is correct, anyway.

As someone who grew up on the “American model” of sports, I dread the day that European football goes that route. Watching franchises move from city to city with no regard to fans, seeing young college players getting drafted like cattle on an auction block, players traded from team to team without any say is depressing. It’s 100% profit over fanbase.
Also the concept of these “legacy teams” gaining European football every year without merit is for sure a concept from American premier league owners who want a guarantee of European football after they invest without having to earn it. It’s a write your own rules pay to play scheme.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:54 am

sch0ll7 wrote:I never thought I would say this but Gary Neville is spot on.

Those clubs (their owners) are thinking just about filling their pockets. It has nothing to do with making football better or more interesting.
They want to make sure they get hundreds of millions every year without even competing for it. Which means less investing and more money for the owners. It would destroy football as we know it. It would kill all mid-table clubs, not to mention smaller clubs.

I am so happy that our club is not a part of it (for now). And even if they try to get in I doubt that the fans would approve of something like that.

There is really nothing wrong with the current CL model. and if it is it can still be changed. Whole league is competitive mostly because everyone is fighting to get into those top 5-6 spots that lead to CL and EL so they could earn some extra money and compete with best teams in Europe. Imagine taking that away from the likes of Leverkusen, Schalke, Leipzig etc...why would they even try? why would they invest money?
If super league happens that means CL and EL would lose most of its money and all those clubs would just become feeder clubs for the elite in Super league. Something like the NBA is feeding of college basketball and european league. I know that now is not ideal but at least smaller clubs get some money.

The biggest difference of CL and Super league is that big clubs have to work hard to get into those competitions and smaller clubs have a fighting chance of getting in which makes everything more interesting. if you take that away it just kills the game.
What world are you living in dude? We've won Bundesliga in 9 out of the past 10 editions. 8/10 if you don't count the current one. The whole league is already a feeder farm for English and Spanish clubs (and us...). Fgs, the second best team in the league can't even hold on to 21 year olds for more than 2 seasons.
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Re: European Football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:01 am

Lahmies wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!

This is worrying. I can't help but feel like the board will cave because of the money. :roll:
It’s definitely a big possibility but somehow I don’t think Bayern would choose to leave the ECA.
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Re: European Football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:13 am

Also, just a reminder that there will be a dialogue with fans on Tuesday before the game coming at the right time for us. Fully expect those members who registered to go on about this and Brazzo.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:17 am

Ottomeister87 wrote:I can understand some clubs who actually are in there, but AC Milan? Tottenham? Arsenal? When did they become relevant in the last 10 years lol. Nah. Fuck them. I hope they will rot in hell for this shit. Luckily its most clubs i despise anyway in there. Now the UEFA has to act right now, kick them all out of this years CL and EL. Ban all those players for the coming Euro's and WC next season and kick them out of their domestic leagues. Lets see how many players they keep.
Seriously? What, you think Kroos is going to leave Real Madrid and go play for Mainz because otherwise he won't be able to play in the Euros? Lol. Hope UEFA goes to war on this, because they'll lose.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:20 am

aterford wrote:Look at a dude like Lewandowski: for him being able to represent his country vs ANDORRA and England was so important that he was willing to risk his club season's success just to be able to do so (not hating on him btw). That's how much representing your country means to him and many players.

Take away the ability for all of these twelve clubs' players to participate in Euros, WC, Copa America, etc and it will crumble, no question. No player is going to throw away their entire NT career for this IMO.
No he didn't. He took a risk. A small risk. He could be injured in literally any game for us, no reason to think Andorra is more dangerous than Bielefeld. If it we're between not playing for Bayern (or any big team ever again) or relinquish international football I'm pretty sure what he would chose.
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Re: European Football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:23 am

Yes, I certainly think it’s possible that some star players will migrate to “smaller” teams. Not Mainz obviously, but the ones with some prestige or with money (the PL clubs are all quite rich).

The 12 clubs are banking on 1) managing to get a good rights deal, and 2) their own prestige, that players will choose to play for them no matter what. I don’t think any of those are a given.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:24 am

aterford wrote:
aterford wrote:- All Super League clubs have reportedly left the ECA


Here's the craziest part to me - if this report is true, as I understand it now even if the Super League doesn't happen, all of these clubs will not be able to compete in any UEFA competition unless they in some way are allowed to re-join the ECA and/or UEFA amends its rules to recognize another governing body, as right now the ECA is the only one they recognize. So even if ESL falls through, for further notice these clubs will be out of UEFA competitions altogether.
Lol. Of they came out with those they already knew what was going to happen and deliberately went ahead with it. You know why? Because the CL is worthless without those teams, and the so are the national leagues. They are the ones who have the best cards here.
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Re: European Football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:30 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
aterford wrote:Look at a dude like Lewandowski: for him being able to represent his country vs ANDORRA and England was so important that he was willing to risk his club season's success just to be able to do so (not hating on him btw). That's how much representing your country means to him and many players.

Take away the ability for all of these twelve clubs' players to participate in Euros, WC, Copa America, etc and it will crumble, no question. No player is going to throw away their entire NT career for this IMO.
No he didn't. He took a risk. A small risk. He could be injured in literally any game for us, no reason to think Andorra is more dangerous than Bielefeld. If it we're between not playing for Bayern (or any big team ever again) or relinquish international football I'm pretty sure what he would chose.
It’s a very pessimistic view of football players you have if you think most of them don’t dream of the world cup despite saying it all the time.

Clubs can die and new ones take their place. Who were Man City and Chelsea, two of the twelve, 20 years ago?

From a player perspective, it would make little difference whether the elite are gathered in Manchester and London or in Amsterdam and Dortmund. They’re the ones who make the teams great. I find it very hard to believe that they value playing for Real Madrid more than playing in the world cup. But yes, money can play a role, of course, which is why it ultimately comes down to whether they can get a good deal. After all, these clubs are largely in huge debt and they have now cut off a massive income supply.
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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:46 am

And what about the Referees?
Who will officiate their games???
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