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European Football

Discussions on football in other leagues around Europe.
 

Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:09 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:[quote="#12"][quote="PunkCapitalist"][quote="#12"][quote="PunkCapitalist"][quote="#12"]Your numbers are still incorrect...

And it’s just not true - cause nobody wants to see your Juve get their asses kicked 20 times a year for 4bn

A big part of this money is generated BECAUSE of UEFA, not in spite of...
He is right. No one pays any money to watch Köln on tv. The big teams are the ones generating economic value. The small teams are parasites that live from the unfair equality in the distribution of money.
Oh you’re right, so you better never ever get insurance for anything in your life... Or social security... Or inheritance...
Ummm I fail to see your argument. What is insurance got to do with this? :-/[/quote]How do you think insurance works?[/quote]Lol. It works by diversifying uncorrelated risk. It also works because people are risk-averse in the sense that they wouldn't take a 50-50 bet. What is your point? It is not charity or socialism lol[/quote]Oh but it is!

Take health insurance, sick people are the parasites living from the unfair equality in the distribution of money that is made possible by premiums which are higher for richer people... [/quote]:-/

First time I hear about premiums being higher for the richer people. Maybe it's a European thing. In any case that is not a necessary feature of insurance. Insurance works because you're willing to pay more for protection from losses than the actual expected value of those losses. And because not everyone gets sick at the same time, on aggregate the insurance company makes a profit. No one is leeching on anybody. It's people paying for protection against a risk.

It's also kinda senseless to talk about parasitism in a scheme were people have to actually pay to be a part of. A different thing is social security, were YES it's parasitism I fully agree.[/quote]I don’t, cause you neglect what society gives YOU and enables YOU to do... It’s by no means everyone can be rich or wealthy and whatnot totally on their own... Also, public schools work the same way buddy... Policing, etc...
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Re: European Football

Postby MUTU » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:09 pm

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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:39 pm

Pfff
Strong with the strong with the weak... (Hamrun Spartans) weak with the strong
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:44 pm

I thought this was already settled and a court had told UEFA not to dare take reprisals
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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:51 pm

May the Refs do their job and kill them during the games...
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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:14 am

So who will be winning the ballon de lol for 2021 ?
Kante or Mbappe????
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Re: European Football

Postby Ottomeister87 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:39 am

ramsej84 wrote:So who will be winning the ballon de lol for 2021 ?
Kante or Mbappe????


As things stand now, Lewa with a lead that travels once around the globe.
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Re: European Football

Postby DRvad14 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:18 pm

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Re: European Football

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:37 pm

Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
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Re: European Football

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:45 pm

A small pace in the right direction but still too little too late... The damage has been done.

First. Abolish football agents.
Cap transfer fees and wages according to;
Level of player
Experience
Age
compensate smaller clubs who's talents are swallowed by the big fish.
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Re: European Football

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:14 pm

ramsej84 wrote:A small pace in the right direction but still too little too late... The damage has been done.

First. Abolish football agents.
Cap transfer fees and wages according to;
Level of player
Experience
Age
compensate smaller clubs who's talents are swallowed by the big fish.

You didn't even hit 20% of the factors that determine the price IMHO.
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Re: European Football

Postby aterford » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:37 pm

I think it's not a bad idea and that 70% is fairly reasonable to start but TBH would probably need to see that figure decreased to have a real effect, probably more like 60% or even closer to 50% of revenue as Kalle suggested recently. I'm not sure that a 70% cap would really have a big impact on many top clubs, and I suspect the addition of a payable "luxury tax" would make it more or less a minor inconvenience.

Based off of Deloitte's 2020 money report revenue figures (from 18/19), if you imposed a 70% salary cap here's how much these top clubs would be able to spend on wages (ranked again by Deloitte's 2020 revenue figures):

1. Barcelona 588.5m
2. Real Madrid 530.1m
3. United 498m
4. Bayern 462.1m
5. PSG 445.1m
6. Man City 427.4m
7. Liverpool 423.3m
8. Spurs 364.8m
9. Chelsea 359.2m
10. Juve 321.8m

And if you compared that against their *actual* wage bill from that same period (18/19), here's how much room they'd have left to spend

1. Barcelona could spend 12.7m more in wages in 18/19
2. Real Madrid +135.9m left to spare
3. United +96.8m
4. Bayern +106m
5. PSG +74.2m
6. Man City +45.2m
7. Liverpool +70m
8. Spurs +161.2m
9. Chelsea +800th
10. Juve 327.8 (-6m) (Juve are the only top-10 club in 2018/19 who would be over the limit)

I don't know exactly how they'd set up the "luxury tax" but if you use the NBA for example (who has a soft salary cap similar to this as well as luxury cap), Juve's balance of 6m over the cap would result in a luxury tax charge of roughly 11m for that season. Which is of course just a drop in the bucket for the 15-billion-net-worth Agnelli family. I suspect unfortunately this would probably be the case for a lot of clubs - they would be willing to go over because the Agnellis, Abramoviches, Mansours, QSG, and so on would be happy to foot the bill.

Still, on the whole I don't think it's a bad idea. But just a starting point.

Granted I would expect 2020, 2021 figures to be a bit more drastic given the big hits to clubs' revenue...If you have a bunch of players signed to four, five years contracts and then your revenue is slashed for a season or two it's going to hurt. But I suspect they would probably do some sort of provision to account for this. I'm all for measures to get clubs' spending under control but at the same time I think it wouldn't really be fair to calculate strictly season-by-season for this reason. For example Bayern's wages to revenue was around 54% in 18/19. And that's a fairly reasonable, responsible amount, all things considered. So, say we maintained that same wage bill (with long term contracts that's likely the case) but suffered a 20% revenue loss due to COVID. That would see us move from 54% wages to revenue to right at 70% wages to revenue, which would suddenly be right at the limit.
SO, all that to say, I think they would probably have to do something like the "rolling window" currently used by FFP.

Anyways, Like I said, I like it overall, but will need some tweaks as time goes on.
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:27 pm

Interesting
Faced with the threat of the ESL, UEFA came up with a stupid relaxation of the FFP rules (no wonder, given that one of the two relevant clubs that resisted the ESL is the worst infringer of FFP).

PD: what the BuLi clubs propose is even more stupid.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2 ... sg-chelsea
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Re: European Football

Postby #12 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:48 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Interesting
Faced with the threat of the ESL, UEFA came up with a stupid relaxation of the FFP rules (no wonder, given that one of the two relevant clubs that resisted the ESL is the worst infringer of FFP).

PD: what the BuLi clubs propose is even more stupid.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2 ... sg-chelsea
What exactly is bad about that demand? Aren’t you against Petrodollars in this sport?
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Re: European Football

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 pm

#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Interesting
Faced with the threat of the ESL, UEFA came up with a stupid relaxation of the FFP rules (no wonder, given that one of the two relevant clubs that resisted the ESL is the worst infringer of FFP).

PD: what the BuLi clubs propose is even more stupid.

https://www.bavarianfootballworks.com/2 ... sg-chelsea
What exactly is bad about that demand? Aren’t you against Petrodollars in this sport?
Yes, but not implemented that way. Im not against money in general, just specifically money from oil sheiks and Russian mafiosi.

But that's not the point. FFP has already been running for a decade or so and didn't work. It didn't because the bad guys always find workarounds. And they will continue to find workarounds to these dumb approaches. Specifically because these are the definition of anti-competitive behavior and wouldn't stand in courts.

Otoh, I'm strictly against hard salary/spending caps.
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