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[2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the German Cup matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:45 pm

Borussia Mönchengladbach will win inside 90 minutes
0
No votes
Borussia Mönchengladbach will win after extra time
0
No votes
Borussia Mönchengladbach will win on penalties
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win on penalties
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win after extra time
1
17%
Bayern Munich will win inside 90 minutes
5
83%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Evan van Essen » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:46 pm

Pavard still is dead to me. Kimmich needs to be off for the next game, just give him a fcking break send him on vacation for a weak. Upa needs to sit his ass down on the bench next 3 games atleast. But damn this was humiliating, but props to gladbach they were the better side. And fuck em for falling with even the slightest of none touches. Tbh this doesn't get me down and we are still one of the favorites for the cl. Bounce back stronger and i already pity our next opponent.

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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:46 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
#12 wrote:Dude, we‘re getting screwed harder by GLADBACH! than we played in ANY of those matches and tonight is when it counts!

Last time we conceded 5 goals in a match, we won the CL. :P
We should focus on winning Bundesliga, seems too big a challenge already…
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:48 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:I think that Nagelsmann would have had tactical solutions and would have corrected quite a few things if he had been down there tonight

But you have to give credit to their coach

Hmm I mean it obviously didn't help but I wouldn't put it down to that. Think we'd have lost anyway. To me the turning point was the dubious penalty, at 2-0 I believe we'd have found a way.
That game was decided with the 1-0
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:49 pm

aterford wrote:Setting aside the fact that Gladbach have long been a bogey team for us, I think they're also better than many are giving them credit for - and not just in this match. Yes, I know they're currently 12th, but their underlying numbers would see them placed more like 5th or thereabouts. That's not great of course, but I don't think they are as bad of a team as their table position would indicate. Beyond that, Gladbach have been very clinical while we've been uncharacteristically error-prone and profligate when we're in attack.

Don't read that wrong: Gladbach are not THAT good and we are playing just terrible. It just so happens that we've turned in our worst performance of the season while Gladbach have brought their absolute best. I suspect that when all is said and done we would probably find that something like a 3-0, 4-1 would be a more 'fair' result but sometimes that's life. Not that it's much better that way, but in some ways I think it's not as comprehensively bad as a 5-0 (or worse) would represent. And of course, we're without our manager at the moment, and - not ref-blaming - but I think it's also fair to say that Gladbach have perhaps benefitted from the officiating/lack of VAR. That's not to take anything from them, really, but like I said previously: Just about everything that could go wrong for us has, and just about everything that could go right for them has as well. I'd wager you could play this same match 100x and not see this same result twice.

So it's a totally sh*t performance, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think it is (yet) totally season-killing or anything like that.

And of course it was Adi Hütter who was leading Frankfurt when they hung 5 on us as well, ha.
Woot? They could‘ve easily scored 8 or 9 had they actually been clinical
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby JimmyHH » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:52 pm

I'm the only person who thinks that we deserved at least three goals? we had more good chances, I mean that we created chances but the guys were unlucky, in defence was the BIG problem, the attack was like every match.
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:55 pm

JimmyHH wrote:I'm the only person who thinks that we deserved at least three goals? we had more good chances, I mean that we created chances but the guys were unlucky, in defence was the BIG problem, the attack was like every match.
Yes you are
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:56 pm

Console yourselves. City are out from the League cup (not the fa cup) as well ...
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U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:59 pm

sherpthederp wrote:At least Tolisso on for Goretzka gave us some stability in midfield and we stopped conceding, but we don’t have a replacement for the exhausted Kimmich, who had a howler today, turning into pressure and getting dispossessed constantly, and misplacing dangerous passes all over the pitch.


But that's why I was suggesting that JN would have changed things around

Their plan was to nullify Kimmich and they did it superbly. Then you would expect some answers from your coach. Maybe Müller or Sane could have dropped deeper to create more options. Or he could have brought in an extra midfielder like Tolisso or Sabitzer. Just something different.

Unfortunately we didn't have Alaba or Boateng to play those long diagonall balls towards Lewy, Müller or our wingers to bypass the high press :idea:
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:59 pm

Why is it considered a popular opinion that Upamecano is a good player worth €42m? He’s never done anything and Konaté was much more important in the prodigious Leipzig side. He’s a Ginter-level player at best. Why did we want him and why was he rated so highly?
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:00 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:
sherpthederp wrote:At least Tolisso on for Goretzka gave us some stability in midfield and we stopped conceding, but we don’t have a replacement for the exhausted Kimmich, who had a howler today, turning into pressure and getting dispossessed constantly, and misplacing dangerous passes all over the pitch.


But that's why I was suggesting that JN would have changed things around

Their plan was to nullify Kimmich and they did it superbly. Then you would expect some answers from your coach. Maybe Müller or Sane could have dropped deeper to create more options. Or he could have brought in an extra midfielder like Tolisso or Sabitzer. Just something different.

Unfortunately we didn't have Alaba or Boateng to play those long diagonall balls towards Lewy, Müller or our wingers to bypass the high press :idea:
You DO know Nagelsmann constantly kept in contact with the bench?
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:00 pm

#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:Setting aside the fact that Gladbach have long been a bogey team for us, I think they're also better than many are giving them credit for - and not just in this match. Yes, I know they're currently 12th, but their underlying numbers would see them placed more like 5th or thereabouts. That's not great of course, but I don't think they are as bad of a team as their table position would indicate. Beyond that, Gladbach have been very clinical while we've been uncharacteristically error-prone and profligate when we're in attack.

Don't read that wrong: Gladbach are not THAT good and we are playing just terrible. It just so happens that we've turned in our worst performance of the season while Gladbach have brought their absolute best. I suspect that when all is said and done we would probably find that something like a 3-0, 4-1 would be a more 'fair' result but sometimes that's life. Not that it's much better that way, but in some ways I think it's not as comprehensively bad as a 5-0 (or worse) would represent. And of course, we're without our manager at the moment, and - not ref-blaming - but I think it's also fair to say that Gladbach have perhaps benefitted from the officiating/lack of VAR. That's not to take anything from them, really, but like I said previously: Just about everything that could go wrong for us has, and just about everything that could go right for them has as well. I'd wager you could play this same match 100x and not see this same result twice.

So it's a totally sh*t performance, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think it is (yet) totally season-killing or anything like that.

And of course it was Adi Hütter who was leading Frankfurt when they hung 5 on us as well, ha.
Woot? They could‘ve easily scored 8 or 9 had they actually been clinical


Nah, be realistic. Gladbach had 6 "big chances" (like, defined big chances in the stat-sheet) and scored 5 goals. They had 7 shots on target total, and scored 5. That's insanely clinical. Nobody's scoring 8 or 9 goals off of 7 shots on target, just like nobody's scoring 8 or 9 goals on 13 *total* shots. Not a chance. Even exceptionally (as in all-time great sides) are lucky to convert better 30% or so (Even our 8 goals vs Barca was about a 30% conversion rate). So saying that if they were more clinical - more clinical than already scoring a goal on 40% of their shots - is basically saying "If this team had the best finishing of any team of all-time then they would've scored more". Which is true enough I guess, but not particularly meaningful, either.
At the same time we finished with 15 total shots, 8 shots on target, but just 3 "Big chances" and of course zero goals. That is of course, also, FAR below our typical conversion rate, and so in the same way one would reasonably expect that in a repeat match we would score more than zero, too.

So it is what it is. Gladbach were exceptionally clinical, far better than their average, and by the same page we were exceptionally un-clinical, far *below* our average in that regard. If you played the same match 100 times, statistically speaking in all likelihood they'd score a couple less on average and we'd likely score a couple more. That's obviously still not giving us a winning result but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging this notion, either. It doesn't take away from them or make us better.
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby JimmyHH » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:01 pm

#12 wrote:
JimmyHH wrote:I'm the only person who thinks that we deserved at least three goals? we had more good chances, I mean that we created chances but the guys were unlucky, in defence was the BIG problem, the attack was like every match.
Yes you are

But Sommer did the game of his life, I don't want to excuse my team but the truth must be said.
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby Mavs » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:02 pm

Absolutely brutal performance.

We didn't even look interested during the first 20 minutes.

And after that, we just weren't good enough on offense and were badly beaten in key duels defensively.

Maybe a wake-up call that was needed after all of the successes of recent weeks. Though you'd have hoped that the Frankfurt game would've accomplished that.

Wonder what comes out of this.
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:03 pm

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:Setting aside the fact that Gladbach have long been a bogey team for us, I think they're also better than many are giving them credit for - and not just in this match. Yes, I know they're currently 12th, but their underlying numbers would see them placed more like 5th or thereabouts. That's not great of course, but I don't think they are as bad of a team as their table position would indicate. Beyond that, Gladbach have been very clinical while we've been uncharacteristically error-prone and profligate when we're in attack.

Don't read that wrong: Gladbach are not THAT good and we are playing just terrible. It just so happens that we've turned in our worst performance of the season while Gladbach have brought their absolute best. I suspect that when all is said and done we would probably find that something like a 3-0, 4-1 would be a more 'fair' result but sometimes that's life. Not that it's much better that way, but in some ways I think it's not as comprehensively bad as a 5-0 (or worse) would represent. And of course, we're without our manager at the moment, and - not ref-blaming - but I think it's also fair to say that Gladbach have perhaps benefitted from the officiating/lack of VAR. That's not to take anything from them, really, but like I said previously: Just about everything that could go wrong for us has, and just about everything that could go right for them has as well. I'd wager you could play this same match 100x and not see this same result twice.

So it's a totally sh*t performance, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think it is (yet) totally season-killing or anything like that.

And of course it was Adi Hütter who was leading Frankfurt when they hung 5 on us as well, ha.
Woot? They could‘ve easily scored 8 or 9 had they actually been clinical


Nah, be realistic. Gladbach had 6 "big chances" (like, defined big chances in the stat-sheet) and scored 5 goals. They had 7 shots on target total, and scored 5. That's insanely clinical. Nobody's scoring 8 or 9 goals off of 7 shots on target, just like nobody's scoring 8 or 9 goals on 13 *total* shots. Not a chance. Even exceptionally (as in all-time great sides) are lucky to convert better 30% or so (Even our 8 goals vs Barca was about a 30% conversion rate). So saying that if they were more clinical - more clinical than already scoring a goal on 40% of their shots - is basically saying "If this team had the best finishing of any team of all-time then they would've scored more". Which is true enough I guess, but not particularly meaningful, either.
At the same time we finished with 15 total shots, 8 shots on target, but just 3 "Big chances" and of course zero goals. That is of course, also, FAR below our typical conversion rate, and so in the same way one would reasonably expect that in a repeat match we would score more than zero, too.

So it is what it is. Gladbach were exceptionally clinical, far better than their average, and by the same page we were exceptionally un-clinical, far *below* our average in that regard. If you played the same match 100 times, statistically speaking in all likelihood they'd score a couple less on average and we'd likely score a couple more. That's obviously still not giving us a winning result but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging this notion, either. It doesn't take away from them or make us better.
Well maybe mathematically, but I think their goals all were more or less consequential (maybe except #4) - while Neuer had a great safe and Embolo missed an easy sitter even before the 4-0… That to me were exceptional chances as well and we‘d be at 7… I mean sure, that would be a great rate, but also nothing unexpected, they‘re pros…
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Re: [2021-10-27] Borussia M'gladbach vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:05 pm

#12 wrote:You DO know Nagelsmann constantly kept in contact with the bench?


Yes, I know that, but it's not the same

If you are on the pitch you can give instructions to you players in real time and see everything. It's not the same that watching the TV broadcast
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