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UEFA Coefficient Rankings

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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:19 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:I may be going off topic, but I want to see a rule which states that with the starting XI there should be at least three / four players eligible to play for the National team of the country which the club represents.

Who'll impose the rule?

the individual Association
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:50 pm

History? In your world?

As gor 50+1 - sorry, BS MUTU...
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On UEL 3 times in a row - no rich owner... For years we have been wiping our asses with PL... Now one year is worse and you cry for blind activity for activity‘s sake...
Again, I don’t think 50+1 is forever or needs to be kept without any change at all... But if you think for one second this irreversible change will improve anything at all you‘re in for a big surprise...
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby Isabella » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:52 am


Mutu please stop to talk without thinking....
The differences between this year coefficients of English and Germany is perfectly explainable without being catastrophic: England’s points are inflated because they had five teams in UCL and all of them arrived to the knockout stages while Germany are bad because last year many of the teams who usually play in Europe had bad results in Bundesliga and were unable to qualify for the UCL and UEL...
Bayern is the only team who had zero excuses for bad results in Europe (and I do not think they had it), BVB has serious trouble with the coaching staff this year, RBL is still a team at his first european campaign (and considering who two years ago were in 2 Liga they had outstanding results), and if you think who Hoffenheim, Freiburg, Köln and Hertha can be trusted with bringing good results in Europe well I do not know what tell you. Try to be realistic and do not look only to numbers but also to the reasons for that numbers, next year they will surely be better.
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby America USA » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:09 am

Isabella wrote:The differences between this year coefficients of English and Germany is perfectly explainable without being catastrophic: England’s points are inflated because they had five teams in UCL and all of them arrived to the knockout stages while Germany are bad because last year many of the teams who usually play in Europe had bad results in Bundesliga and were unable to qualify for the UCL and UEL...
Bayern is the only team who had zero excuses for bad results in Europe (and I do not think they had it), BVB has serious trouble with the coaching staff this year, RBL is still a team at his first european campaign (and considering who two years ago were in 2 Liga they had outstanding results), and if you think who Hoffenheim, Freiburg, Köln and Hertha can be trusted with bringing good results in Europe well I do not know what tell you. Try to be realistic and do not look only to numbers but also to the reasons for that numbers, next year they will surely be better.

Agree with this. Lets wait and see if this season was an anomaly or if it becomes the norm. Panic decisions regarding such an important issue should be avoided.

Something interesting I’ve noticed. Go to almost any online forum of a PL team and when an International competition is going on and England are doing poorly or Germany are doing well they always credit German football for the 50+1 rule and how German football keeps giving its youngsters chances in the BL and how fan friendly (ticket prices) German football in general is. This is even more reflected in Arsenal or (formerly) Liverpool forums at times because the owners don’t give a f*** about what the fans want and then when they see fan/member ownership in Germany they appreciate it.

I’ll leave this discussion at this: The grass always looks greener on the other side but that is not always the case!
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby MUTU » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:24 am

Isabella wrote:

Mutu please stop to talk without thinking....
The differences between this year coefficients of English and Germany is perfectly explainable without being catastrophic: England’s points are inflated because they had five teams in UCL and all of them arrived to the knockout stages while Germany are bad because last year many of the teams who usually play in Europe had bad results in Bundesliga and were unable to qualify for the UCL and UEL...
Bayern is the only team who had zero excuses for bad results in Europe (and I do not think they had it), BVB has serious trouble with the coaching staff this year, RBL is still a team at his first european campaign (and considering who two years ago were in 2 Liga they had outstanding results), and if you think who Hoffenheim, Freiburg, Köln and Hertha can be trusted with bringing good results in Europe well I do not know what tell you. Try to be realistic and do not look only to numbers but also to the reasons for that numbers, next year they will surely be better.
Bla bla bla. Hiding your head in the sand, that's what you're doing. You don't need to even look at the coefficients to notice that the Bundesliga has declined.

You're quoting the usual suspects not being in the competition as an excuse but it's a terrible one given that Leipzig are the only team apart from Bayern who are still not eliminated.

Dortmund reached a CL final in 2013, but now they got eliminated by an Austrian team. Let that sink in, an Austrian team.

And how do you explain England's great performance? If every team could lose and get eliminated (which can't happen since Liverpool and Man City are paired up), they would still have more coefficient points than Germany has EVER had. What are we doing to try and keep up, complain that Schalke and Leverkusen were not in the competition? Do you honestly think that if they were we would have broken the Bundesliga record for coefficient points and kept up with the PL?
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:35 am

No...

Do you honestly think it would’ve happened without 50+1?
Your criticism is justified... But your assumption is incorrect... You’re firing blanks ...
How many of the remaining clubs have an owner with 50+x shares?
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby Isabella » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:54 am

You have read what I have said? England had five teams in the UCL’s group stages and they arrived all at the knockout stages. Germany had ever five teams in UCL? No, so is impossible for Germany reach that level of points but is nothing to be worried about because the extra points came from the UCL groups stages (who are worth more points than UEL group stages so that alone explain that more points Germany ever had. In its best year Germany had 4 teams in UCL and 3 in UEL, this year England had 5 in UCL and 2 in UEL)
Bundesliga had a bad year, you can call that decline after the third consecutive year who that happened.
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:56 am

Isabella wrote:You have read what I have said? England had five teams in the UCL’s group stages and they arrived all at the knockout stages. Germany had ever five teams in UCL? No, so is impossible for Germany reach that level of points but is nothing to be worried about because the extra points came from the UCL groups stages (who are worth more points than UEL group stages so that alone explain that more points Germany ever had. In its best year Germany had 4 teams in UCL and 3 in UEL, this year England had 5 in UCL and 2 in UEL)
Bundesliga had a bad year, you can call that decline after the third consecutive year who that happened.


You’re wrong... Cause the coefficients are points collected divided by teams collecting it... So actually, the more trams start, the harder it is to have a high coefficient as one is bound to drop points at some point...
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby MUTU » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:26 pm

#12 wrote:No...

Do you honestly think it would’ve happened without 50+1?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

#12 wrote:Your criticism is justified... But your assumption is incorrect... You’re firing blanks ...
How many of the remaining clubs have an owner with 50+x shares?

You're looking at it the wrong way. It doesn't matter if they're remaining or not.

Look at the coefficients.
As things stand:

Liverpool, FC Bayern 24 points
Manchester City 22 points
Tottenham Hotspur* 21 points
Manchester United* 20 points
Chelsea* 18 points
Arsenal 16 points
RB Leipzig 15 points
Borussia Dortmund* 10 points
Everton* 6.5 points
1.FC Köln* 4 points
Hertha BSC* 4 points
1899 Hoffenheim* 4 points
SC Freiburg* 1 point

* eliminated

This means that despite RB Leipzig still playing in the Europa League, all English clubs bar Everton have gotten more coefficient points than them. Therefore, it doesn't matter that they got eliminated, chances are that Tottenham, Man Utd and possibly even Chelsea will end up with more points than RB Leipzig at the end of the season.
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby Isabella » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:26 pm

#12 wrote:
Isabella wrote:You have read what I have said? England had five teams in the UCL’s group stages and they arrived all at the knockout stages. Germany had ever five teams in UCL? No, so is impossible for Germany reach that level of points but is nothing to be worried about because the extra points came from the UCL groups stages (who are worth more points than UEL group stages so that alone explain that more points Germany ever had. In its best year Germany had 4 teams in UCL and 3 in UEL, this year England had 5 in UCL and 2 in UEL)
Bundesliga had a bad year, you can call that decline after the third consecutive year who that happened.


You’re wrong... Cause the coefficients are points collected divided by teams collecting it... So actually, the more trams start, the harder it is to have a high coefficient as one is bound to drop points at some point...

EPL has still seven teams not eight...
ManU’s spot in UEL was not given to anyone else
And Spain also had made is record points when Sevilla was promoted in UCL instead of UEL after winning UEL the year before and so Spain had 5 teams on UCL groups stages and only two in UEL group stages...
Well Sevilla and Valencia ended third in their groups but still had a good run in UEL group stages and both cups winners plus the UCL finalist one of the UEL semi finalist all Spanish (and still Spain make about 24 points)
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby MUTU » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:32 pm

Isabella wrote:You have read what I have said? England had five teams in the UCL’s group stages and they arrived all at the knockout stages. Germany had ever five teams in UCL? No, so is impossible for Germany reach that level of points but is nothing to be worried about because the extra points came from the UCL groups stages (who are worth more points than UEL group stages so that alone explain that more points Germany ever had. In its best year Germany had 4 teams in UCL and 3 in UEL, this year England had 5 in UCL and 2 in UEL)
Bundesliga had a bad year, you can call that decline after the third consecutive year who that happened.

When we had 4/4 qualifying to the round of 16 in the CL, we celebrated.
Now England had 5/5, which is a much tougher feat. Anyway, we went from 4/4 to 1/4. And what should be our 2nd best team got humiliated in the Champions League (almost finished in last place) and then in the Europa League (failing to win either leg against an Austrian club). When has a German club last been eliminated by a team from a league rated as poorly as the Austrian league? If that's not decline, then what is? Do you realise that almost every single Bundesliga star, bar the oft-injured ones like Reus and the ones playing for Bayern, have been sold in the last 2 years? The best players at other clubs are almost exclusively new signings, like Bailey, or on the way out (like Goretzka and Keita).

Let's play a game. Forget Bayern completely. Build a team from players who have left other Bundesliga clubs and are now playing elsewhere, and build a team from players currently playing in the Bundesliga. Who do you think will win?
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:53 pm

MUTU wrote:
Isabella wrote:You have read what I have said? England had five teams in the UCL’s group stages and they arrived all at the knockout stages. Germany had ever five teams in UCL? No, so is impossible for Germany reach that level of points but is nothing to be worried about because the extra points came from the UCL groups stages (who are worth more points than UEL group stages so that alone explain that more points Germany ever had. In its best year Germany had 4 teams in UCL and 3 in UEL, this year England had 5 in UCL and 2 in UEL)
Bundesliga had a bad year, you can call that decline after the third consecutive year who that happened.

When we had 4/4 qualifying to the round of 16 in the CL, we celebrated.
Now England had 5/5, which is a much tougher feat. Anyway, we went from 4/4 to 1/4. And what should be our 2nd best team got humiliated in the Champions League (almost finished in last place) and then in the Europa League (failing to win either leg against an Austrian club). When has a German club last been eliminated by a team from a league rated as poorly as the Austrian league? If that's not decline, then what is? Do you realise that almost every single Bundesliga star, bar the oft-injured ones like Reus and the ones playing for Bayern, have been sold in the last 2 years? The best players at other clubs are almost exclusively new signings, like Bailey, or on the way out (like Goretzka and Keita).

Let's play a game. Forget Bayern completely. Build a team from players who have left other Bundesliga clubs and are now playing elsewhere, and build a team from players currently playing in the Bundesliga. Who do you think will win?
Ter Stegen
Mustafi Rudiger Metesacker Howedes
Khedira Kroos
Dembele KdBruyne Ozil
Aubameyang

Subs
Karius
Tasci
Can
Geis
Miki
Chalanoglu


Vs

Baumann
Pisczeck Tah Papa Philipp
Weigl. Arnold
Gnabry. Reus. Guerreiro
GOMEZ



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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby MUTU » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:21 pm

Mine:



versus



And I left out Rakitić, Draxler, Firmino, Mkhitaryan, Džeko, Khedira, Dembélé, Son, Dost and Xhaka

I purposely excluded every player that plays for or used to play for FC Bayern. Note that if I make this list again in a few months' time, the 'other Bundesliga teams' would be missing Goretzka and Keita.

I think the 2nd formation would beat the first one hands down.
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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:24 pm

Carvajal was on loan...
I forgot Gundo and Sane and yes Rakitic

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Re: UEFA Coefficient Rankings

Postby MUTU » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:30 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Carvajal was on loan...
I forgot Gundo and Sane and yes Rakitic

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No, Carvajal was not on loan. Hoewedes is.
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