You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

[2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:00 pm

S.L. Benfica will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win
6
100%
 
Total votes : 6

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:17 am

MUTU wrote:I mean subpar in relation with the rest of our squad. He was one of our weakest players in the first half. He completely transformed at one point in the second half.


No. From the players that were active offensively, Pavard, Sabitzer and Müller were all worse and less involved. Overall speaking, Süle and Upa were also shaky at the back the few times Benfica went forward.
I have to agree with Sandro Wagner and the DAZN commentator that Sané played a good game also in the first half.
---------------Lewandowski
------------Sané - Müller - Gnabry
------------Goretzka - Kimmich
Davies - Hernández - Upamecano - Süle
--------------------Neuer
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 777 times
Been thanked: 3983 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:13 pm

bastos80 wrote:
MUTU wrote:I mean subpar in relation with the rest of our squad. He was one of our weakest players in the first half. He completely transformed at one point in the second half.


No. From the players that were active offensively, Pavard, Sabitzer and Müller were all worse and less involved. Overall speaking, Süle and Upa were also shaky at the back the few times Benfica went forward.
I have to agree with Sandro Wagner and the DAZN commentator that Sané played a good game also in the first half.

I took these screenshots at half time. All is good though as he had a terrific second half and I would have given him the MOTM.

Screenshot_2021-10-20-21-49-36-821_com.sofascore.results.jpg
Screenshot_2021-10-20-21-50-19-446_com.whoscored.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 52197
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9356 times
Been thanked: 15461 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:29 pm

Football app ratings, the one and only source of truth. Let alone it being extremely silly to talk about "sub-par" when his rating is actually on-par with or 0.1 ( :lol: ) points lower than most other players.
Why are you even taking screenshots at half-time? It's like you've been preparing for a discussion like this :lol:
---------------Lewandowski
------------Sané - Müller - Gnabry
------------Goretzka - Kimmich
Davies - Hernández - Upamecano - Süle
--------------------Neuer
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 777 times
Been thanked: 3983 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:46 pm

bastos80 wrote:Football app ratings, the one and only source of truth.

As opposed to the opinion of Sandro Wagner of all people? Does he still think he's the best German striker? :wink:

bastos80 wrote:Let alone it being extremely silly to talk about "sub-par" when his rating is actually on-par with or 0.1 ( :lol: ) points lower than most other players.

In one app he's the joint worst player. In another app he's the joint second-worst player. Average in WhoScored excluding Sane` was 6.53 and he got 6.2. Average in Sofascore excluding Sane was 6.72 and he got 6.4. The word supbar was apt. I didn't call him terrible or something. At the end of the match he had the highest ratings in both apps. That's how big the difference between the first half and second half was for him. Does it need to be spelled out? I mean in the first half he took 3 shots and failed to get either of them on target, nor do any key passes to his teammates. In the second half he also took 3 shots, one of them went wide but the other 2 he got on target and scored. On top of that he provided Lewandowski with an easy tap-in assist.

bastos80 wrote:Why are you even taking screenshots at half-time? It's like you've been preparing for a discussion like this :lol:

Because I was having a discussion at the time. Here on the forum. I was asking for Gnabry or Musiala to come on for either Mueller or Sane, at a time when things looked bleak. The right hand side looked better once Gnabry came on (it was still 0-0 when he came on), despite that he didn't help too much with the goals themselves, but at least it balanced the wings better.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 52197
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9356 times
Been thanked: 15461 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:52 pm

MUTU wrote:
bastos80 wrote:Football app ratings, the one and only source of truth.

As opposed to the opinion of Sandro Wagner of all people? Does he still think he's the best German striker? :wink:

bastos80 wrote:Let alone it being extremely silly to talk about "sub-par" when his rating is actually on-par with or 0.1 ( :lol: ) points lower than most other players.

In one app he's the joint worst player. In another app he's the joint second-worst player. Average in WhoScored excluding Sane` was 6.53 and he got 6.2. Average in Sofascore excluding Sane was 6.72 and he got 6.4. The word supbar was apt. I didn't call him terrible or something. At the end of the match he had the highest ratings in both apps. That's how big the difference between the first half and second half was for him. Does it need to be spelled out? I mean in the first half he took 3 shots and failed to get either of them on target, nor do any key passes to his teammates. In the second half he also took 3 shots, one of them went wide but the other 2 he got on target and scored. On top of that he provided Lewandowski with an easy tap-in assist.

bastos80 wrote:Why are you even taking screenshots at half-time? It's like you've been preparing for a discussion like this :lol:

Because I was having a discussion at the time. Here on the forum. I was asking for Gnabry or Musiala to come on for either Mueller or Sane, at a time when things looked bleak. The right hand side looked better once Gnabry came on (it was still 0-0 when he came on), despite that he didn't help too much with the goals themselves, but at least it balanced the wings better.


Unlike those football apps, Sandro Wagner actually watches the game with his own set of two eyes ;)

First of all, the purpose of comparing a forward to a midfielder to a defender is close to zero.
In your first pic he is the joint second best player in our attack alongside Lewandowski. In your second pic, he is the joint worst player in our attack alongside Lewandowski. Which puts him right in the middle. "Sub-par" is therefore by definition false. He was totally average. You could say Coman was the only player that stood out. And why am I not seeing you label Lewandowski's first half performance as sub-par, since he has the exact same rating as Sané? Is it you "not being sold" on Sané playing a role here maybe?
Besides that, if I have players that are pretty much involved in all attacks, getting into dangerous positions consistently, which Sané was one of them, and just lacked a little precision, he's the last one you should take off. I've said a few weeks ago about Sané. Sometimes you have to force your luck. His two big chances in the 1st half were incredibly close. Same with his long shot against Leverkusen and his missed assist against Frankfurt. I'm glad Nagelsmann was proven right by keeping him on.
---------------Lewandowski
------------Sané - Müller - Gnabry
------------Goretzka - Kimmich
Davies - Hernández - Upamecano - Süle
--------------------Neuer
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 777 times
Been thanked: 3983 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:05 pm

bastos80 wrote:Unlike those football apps, Sandro Wagner actually watches the game with his own set of two eyes ;)

Those football apps are a hundred billion times more reliable than Sandro Wagner's eyes to me, but to each his own I guess.

bastos80 wrote:First of all, the purpose of comparing a forward to a midfielder to a defender is close to zero.

Agreed.

bastos80 wrote:In your first pic he is the joint second best player in our attack alongside Lewandowski. In your second pic, he is the joint worst player in our attack alongside Lewandowski. Which puts him right in the middle. "Sub-par" is therefore by definition false.

He had the most off-target shots of the first half. I felt he was the most wasteful, hence my comment.

bastos80 wrote:He was totally average.

OK, at least we're closer to consensus. Earlier you said his first half was good.

bastos80 wrote:You could say Coman was the only player that stood out. And why am I not seeing you label Lewandowski's first half performance as sub-par, since he has the exact same rating as Sané? Is it you "not being sold" on Sané playing a role here maybe?

I didn't talk about every single player, as you can see from my posts. Yes, I agree that Lewandowski was subpar in the first half, and still not as good as Coman or Sane in the second half either. Contrary to what you may think, I don't wish for Sané to fail; I criticise him because I know he can do better and that's what frustrates me. I was very frustrated with his finishing at half time, in fact furious.

bastos80 wrote:Besides that, if I have players that are pretty much involved in all attacks, getting into dangerous positions consistently, which Sané was one of them, and just lacked a little precision, he's the last one you should take off. I've said a few weeks ago about Sané. Sometimes you have to force your luck. His two big chances in the 1st half were incredibly close. Same with his long shot against Leverkusen and his missed assist against Frankfurt. I'm glad Nagelsmann was proven right by keeping him on.

But that's exactly why I find him frustrating. He's eye candy with the ball at his feet, he has that flair, that dribbling skill, that speed, and you end up rooting for him to score what would be such a great goal but in the end he shoots the ball high. Perhaps playing more centrally has helped him. He looked better at CAM than he's looked on the wings all season, while Coman at LW has looked better than Sané usually does at LW.

I would like to see Mueller being left out once, just to see how it goes with Coman, Sané and Gnabry playing right behind Lewandowski.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 52197
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9356 times
Been thanked: 15461 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:08 pm

Sané played a good first half, average in the context of the team's offense.
---------------Lewandowski
------------Sané - Müller - Gnabry
------------Goretzka - Kimmich
Davies - Hernández - Upamecano - Süle
--------------------Neuer
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 777 times
Been thanked: 3983 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby pers » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:31 pm

4-0 but we can still see discussion how bad Bayern players are. It's funny tbh. To me Sane was MOTM for sure but Coman was close but unlucky. Good to see them playing so well.
pers
Woah, this feels cool!
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:47 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 14 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister87 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:16 pm

Hahaha man i am laughing so hard.. Taking ratings from a football app more serious over the eyes of an ex player who actually knows the ins and outs of the game or from all of us, who actually watched the damn game.. Whats more reliable? That what you actually see in the match going on on the tv screen, or 2 digits in a random app. Its the same as to take Fifa ratings serious.. Come on Mutu, i rate you way higher as that..

Anyway.. I actually really enjoyed this match, even though it could go both sides in most parts of the match. 2 great Neuer saves, Benfica goalie started to have a lifetime match of his own, but luckily we scored that important 0-1 by Sane and ran them over completely after.

No injuries as far as we know. =D>

This Coman display, he needs to put on atleast 8 out of 10 games. Sane with another confidence booster today. Pavard has some nice actions in this game also. Sabitzer did what he had to do, since Kimmich looked the more offensive one today to me. Lewa taking an easy one today for the books. Cant complain.
Ottomeister87
I'm a post king!
 
Posts: 3122
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:25 am
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 513 times
Been thanked: 820 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:47 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:Taking ratings from a football app more serious over the eyes of an ex player who actually knows the ins and outs of the game or from all of us, who actually watched the damn game.. Whats more reliable?

The algorithms of the apps, hands down, because they don't need to 'remember', they have no biases and they aren't impressed by aesthetics of football. They're considerably more reliable than any person. I mean weren't a bunch of us complaining a while back about BILD (human ratings) having too unfair ratings on Sane? I mean Loddar didn't say he was impressed by Sane at half time, and I dare say he's more experienced than Wagner. But who cares, they're just personal opinions.

From WhoScored's site:
WhoScored.com Ratings are based on a unique, comprehensive statistical algorithm, calculated live during the game. There are over 200 raw statistics included in the calculation of a player’s/team’s rating, weighted according to their influence within the game. Every event of importance is taken into account, with a positive or negative effect on ratings weighted in relation to its area on the pitch and its outcome.


This is impossible for a human to do in his brain and keep track of all the players, without blinking or sipping a beer and be expected moreover to do this without any biases and without being infatuated by flair. They're considerably better than any BILD rating or a Sandro "I'm the best German striker" Wagner opinion.

Crucially: Any offensive player who inside a half provides 0 key passes, shoots 3 times off target (and 0 on target), 0 tackles and has only 1 dribble cannot possibly have had a good half, no matter what any ex player would say.

Likewise, a player who inside a half shoots 3 times (2 on target), scores 2 goals, provides an assist on a silver plate and puts in a tackle has had a great half, no matter what any ex player would say.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 52197
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9356 times
Been thanked: 15461 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister87 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:34 pm

But thats how much worth you put on those ''ratings'' , i for instance dont care about the final match ratings of players. I can tell myself by watching the game who did good and who sucked. Those stats are fun for the analytics, but for the ones who just wanna enjoy the game and be entertained by the team, probably not so much .
Ottomeister87
I'm a post king!
 
Posts: 3122
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:25 am
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 513 times
Been thanked: 820 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:35 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:Those stats are fun for the analytics

Dude, have you just started reading my posts? :lol: 8)
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & Euro 2016, 2017/18, World Cup 2018 and Euro 2020 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 52197
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9356 times
Been thanked: 15461 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:20 am

According to Whoscored, Leroy Sane has been our 4th best performer this season in BL and our BEST performer in CL yet you weren't happy with him and said that you would be asking for a new winger at the end of the season if he didn't improve

:coffee:
- Hansi Legend Flick -
User avatar
YlonenXabi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14033
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Guernsey
National Flag:
Spain
Has thanked: 4914 times
Been thanked: 4700 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:23 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:According to Whoscored, Leroy Sane has been our 4th best performer this season in BL and our BEST performer in CL yet you weren't happy with him and said that you would be asking for a new winger at the end of the season if he didn't improve

:coffee:


lol, when was that?
---------------Lewandowski
------------Sané - Müller - Gnabry
------------Goretzka - Kimmich
Davies - Hernández - Upamecano - Süle
--------------------Neuer
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 777 times
Been thanked: 3983 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-10-20] S.L. Benfica vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:04 pm

MUTU wrote:I'm not sold. This guy has all the flair and dribbling, but without being a great tackler of the ball nor clinical with his finishing, nor having great crosses I'm not sure about him. If he was 19 years old I'd be saying "give him time", but how much time should we give him? He does everything right except the final touch. Unless he starts scoring or assisting regularly I will be requesting us to buy a starting LW.


:coffee:
- Hansi Legend Flick -
User avatar
YlonenXabi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14033
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Guernsey
National Flag:
Spain
Has thanked: 4914 times
Been thanked: 4700 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

PreviousNext

Return to UEFA Champions League

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests