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[2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue May 01, 2018 7:45 pm

Real Madrid will win
2
6%
It will end in a draw
4
13%
Bayern Munich will win 1-0
1
3%
Bayern Munich will go through
25
78%
 
Total votes : 32

Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Fri May 04, 2018 9:47 pm

Ziklitschli wrote:
#12 wrote:I think it’s ridiculous to claim we were the better team last year... We simply weren’t... Not even for 15 mins...

This year, they clearly were **** ice-cold... Which IS a trait of quality... That said, this year we were better (or they were worse...) - yet we STILL couldn’t win... We clearly lack something in these games and it’s not just against RM and it’s not just the ref...
Still, had we not made those **** ups, I'd be in... I'd still think claiming six penalties is ridiculous, but one at least was undeniable... The way things went though, I'm not (entirely) - maybe it’s a German thing, to tend to look for your own mistakes first, Jupp said it to... But nonetheless it’s how I feel - this still means the ref was shit btw...


Last year we were not a top team anymore and it was all how Real was better because they had so much more shots and chances afair (and Neuer saved us). By that logic, aren't we a top team after all and a better one thanks to more shots and chances (where Navas saved them)? Some consistency please.

Not that I disagree 100%, just an observation. Here's an imo interesting quote from RM forum (ditch the referee part though heh)

http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/real-m ... 84/page-45

someone from RM forum wrote:
someone else from RM forum wrote:Of course but we are still here to analyse the match and debate the good and the bad.

It's taboo apparently to even mention that we played badly and got outplayed over the two games.

It is taboo. People don't come here for objectivity, they come to cheer for their club. Nobody wants the unpleasant truth.


But at the same time its not as simple as you say. I see the same thing: on the pitch we look terrible. Yet, here we are, in the finals three years in a row. Managed to edge out the best teams in Europe. Over and over and over again. I don't buy the referee helping us theory, refs make mistakes for everybody, and over three years they even out.

So that leaves luck. We had a fair share of it, thats true. But three years in a row? Six matches in a row this year, against giants like PSG, Juventus and Bayern? Luck doesn't work that way, over that big a sample it will turn against you, thats just simple probability. There is something more; this team, as bad as it is, with one striker that doesn't know how to score, another that is completely dependent on service at this point, a midfield that is terrible at positioning, centerbacks prone to constant lapses, fullbacks that don't defend, STILL manages to grind out results somehow.

And thats the whole truth, they grind out results because they play only for that one goal advantage, which is exactly what they need in the CL, and what they are capable of getting when they focus and put everything out there. They are capable of hanging in there to save their lives because individually they are good enough to survive, when luck comes to their aid, like it does to every other team that doesn't have that individual quality.

And thats the whole truth there. In a way Benzema is symbolic for how this club wins: it doesn't do what is generally by usual standards considered necessary, but it is always a threat of doing something great, because the individual quality is there. And it somehow operates in an equilibrium, regardless of how awkward it may seem.



... and I agree, in a way. They are grinders, very capable ones, determined and ready to do everything to win. That time wasting for example, it was pathetic, embrassing, unworthy of a serial CL champion claiming to be one of the greatest teams ever. They will still do it, dive left and right, handball, foul, maybe even bribe and therefore grind it in the end.


Dude, they fecking won... How many games have we won against the top 10 since 2013? (3?4?) How many ties? (Still only one, in Ot, btw...)
We can talk about being a top team when we’re able to win our home games again against a team that historically chokes on German soil...
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby IrishDave » Fri May 04, 2018 10:09 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:


The box wouldn't have been so packed under different tactical choices... Like not holding possession so cautiously, and employing more quick vertical through balls (like Tolisso's, again). As we currently play, must of our creativity happens pretty much at the edge of their box (because creativity is concentrated in wingers). What I'm arguing is that we need to move our creativity efforts to deeper zones; to midfielders. We have the perfect midfielders for that in James and Tolisso.

[/quote]

If you swap the possession stats around from the other night it would have been a totally different game, Madrid would have just passed the ball amongst themselves and not come at us because they did not need to score whereas we did that s why we held on to possession so cautiously, now I know we like to have possession but i am sure Jupp would have realised that giving them the ball was our best plan but getting Madrid to open up wasn't going to happen so we had to control possession and play the game in their half. There is what? 3? maybe 4? players in the world who can unlock mass defences/ packed defences at the top level and James and Tolisso are not among them (although the more I see of Tolisso the more I like him, but I see him more as a central mid)

We could have set everybody back further to try create some space but that brings us back to our lack of pace problem, its why need to invest in wingers/forwards with pace not go more centrally because we don't have the players to do that well when it comes to the business end of a season. How much is KDB worth now? or Messi? Couthino? We are not going to pay similar crazy amounts (thankfully) it would take to bring in a top level player to play in those positions. And IF Lewy is still in Munich next season, his coming deep only adds to the problem as its adds another body tho an area where space is needed.
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby Lý bảo linh » Sat May 05, 2018 1:34 am

IrishDave wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:


The box wouldn't have been so packed under different tactical choices... Like not holding possession so cautiously, and employing more quick vertical through balls (like Tolisso's, again). As we currently play, must of our creativity happens pretty much at the edge of their box (because creativity is concentrated in wingers). What I'm arguing is that we need to move our creativity efforts to deeper zones; to midfielders. We have the perfect midfielders for that in James and Tolisso.



If you swap the possession stats around from the other night it would have been a totally different game, Madrid would have just passed the ball amongst themselves and not come at us because they did not need to score whereas we did that s why we held on to possession so cautiously, now I know we like to have possession but i am sure Jupp would have realised that giving them the ball was our best plan but getting Madrid to open up wasn't going to happen so we had to control possession and play the game in their half. There is what? 3? maybe 4? players in the world who can unlock mass defences/ packed defences at the top level and James and Tolisso are not among them (although the more I see of Tolisso the more I like him, but I see him more as a central mid)

We could have set everybody back further to try create some space but that brings us back to our lack of pace problem, its why need to invest in wingers/forwards with pace not go more centrally because we don't have the players to do that well when it comes to the business end of a season. How much is KDB worth now? or Messi? Couthino? We are not going to pay similar crazy amounts (thankfully) it would take to bring in a top level player to play in those positions. And IF Lewy is still in Munich next season, his coming deep only adds to the problem as its adds another body tho an area where space is needed.[/quote]

In fact , problem is our strikers can't score and they lack pace . If you want someone fast , I think griezmann is reasonable or we must pay back for mandzukic . We must depend on connan , gnabry when they come back . I think we are good at creating chances but we also lack someone who win ball back to push high before real madrid . Someone like Vidal . Mistakes in defening led to our failure before real Madrid . I see tolliso more, I think he play as Cam with through balls .
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby Lý bảo linh » Sat May 05, 2018 1:38 am

If you want to set someone to create space back , James is doing it more at this season with links about counter . What we lack some fast strikers to play counter
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[2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby pyrasur » Sat May 05, 2018 7:46 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Yeah! Hazard and Salah. Good luck with that.

Wingers are too expensive at the moment, stop clinging to 2013 like it was yesterday... ITS BEEN 5 YEARS ALREADY!

On top of wingers being expensive as hell, we'd have to bench either James or Müller.... Super smart choice, benching one of our best players.

The box wouldn't have been so packed under different tactical choices... Like not holding possession so cautiously, and employing more quick vertical through balls (like Tolisso's, again). As we currently play, must of our creativity happens pretty much at the edge of their box (because creativity is concentrated in wingers). What I'm arguing is that we need to move our creativity efforts to deeper zones; to midfielders. We have the perfect midfielders for that in James and Tolisso.

The reason their box was always packed is that we always have them lots of time to pack it. Simple as that. And they knew exactly what we were gonna do; send random crosses into a packed box for them to clear. Brilliiiiiaaannnttt tactics.

Would better wingers help with that? Only marginally. If we are too slow until we reach the box, it's going to be packed anyway. In that situation, even a prime Robben would have to evade too many bodies to score and a prime Ribery would also have to dribble past 3-4 defenders before shooting. The real solution is not dribbling better, it's getting the ball to the box BEFORE it's packed.

As to what someone else said... Yes, we were the better side. Our midfielder and defensive organization were better. Nonetheless, we were completely ineffective in attack as a consequence of poor quality attempts (due to packed box combined with our approach to "go around it"), and that itself is a consequence of poor attacking tactics.

To summarize my whole rant into a short statement; we're still playing too Guardiola and not enough Klopp.

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I mostly agree. I think we need to attack faster and more centrally. Whether they are called wingers or not, whether it’s a front three or a front two, an attack where our 90% tactic is for the same winger to send cross after cross is just too predictable. Moreover I don’t find it aesthetic . Either the attackers need to combine better like Liverpool’s front three, or like you say we better utilize the strength we have in the midfield. I think we saw what James and Tolisso have to offer, and I hope Goretzka can add something more.

I prefer the structure of a 4-3-3, I’d prefer to see those front three combine more. But as I said in the Müller thread, finding two wide attackers might be too difficult, and the composition of the team might lend itself more naturally to another solution that makes better use of Müller’s talents.
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby Lý bảo linh » Sat May 05, 2018 8:40 am

In fact , Robben and Ribery pefer to play indivially . That 's why we can't combine the front three at here . Instead robbery pass , they shoot at difficult shot . I think if we have gorezta , maybe we will have 4-3-3 with the better attack because he is a box to box and can driible our competiors . In fact , if james stay here next season , I think he and Thiago will rotate each other . Playing with 2 box to box who can win ball back from our competitors and push high to attack will not need a Dm at here . The deepest in midfilder in 4-3-3 should be a person who control game and build attack from back . A midfilder whọ look like pirlo
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon May 07, 2018 8:06 am

#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
All united against Collina [source]


Image


MUTU: what would you do if I started posting German sources without any comments? ;)
I translated the title. What, you expect me to translate the whole article? Use Google Translate if you don't understand Italian.
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Mon May 07, 2018 8:12 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
All united against Collina [source]


Image


MUTU: what would you do if I started posting German sources without any comments? ;)
I translated the title. What, you expect me to translate the whole article? Use Google Translate if you don't understand Italian.


No, context...

Collina the chief ref and against VAR per chance?
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Mon May 07, 2018 10:03 pm

Collina is the head of the choice of referees for UEFA.
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Tue May 08, 2018 2:36 am

Just read this entire thread.. Wow this is classic gold stuff! :mrgreen:
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue May 08, 2018 11:34 am

America USA wrote:Just read this entire thread.. Wow this is classic gold stuff! :mrgreen:

As angry as I was at the time, my two posts here, written 1 minute apart at the end of half time and the beginning of the second half, are pure gold. :lol:

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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Sat May 26, 2018 7:48 am

I still can't believe it. Can you imagine what emotions we would be feeling today if we were playing in the CL final tonight? We'd spend all day just thinking about the match. We were robbed :(
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat May 26, 2018 7:58 am

Other years I didn't really feel anything but this time I am really upset about it, both yesterday and today. Probably because we never deserved it more.
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Sat May 26, 2018 8:21 am

FWIW, I think it’s good: we were in no condition to win it anyway... A(NOTHER) final defeat hurts much more...
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Re: [2018-05-01] Real Madrid vs Bayern Munich

Postby nm462272 » Sat May 26, 2018 2:59 pm

#12 wrote:FWIW, I think it’s good: we were in no condition to win it anyway... A(NOTHER) final defeat hurts much more...


agreed, that Liverpool front 3 would have torn our defense apart... and with the way Bayern was creating chances, can't imagine them scoring enough to win either
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