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[2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 pm

Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis after 90 minutes
9
39%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis after extra time
1
4%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis on penalties
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis on penalties
1
4%
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis after extra time
3
13%
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis after 90 minutes
9
39%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:40 pm

aterford wrote:Have to consider not just the benches, but also the starting XI's...The only reason our bench was made into a big concern is because of the number/quality of injuries we had. None of those benches would look nearly as good if they had half those players forced into the starting XI due to injury, like we did.

Look at it like this - here are the players we currently have out - by minutes/scoring:
Lewandowski - our leading scorer
Goretzka - our #2 starting midfielder, highest-scoring midfielder, and #5 scorer overall
Sule - Our #2/#3 CB, roughly on par with Boateng
Gnabry - #2 starting winger (less total minutes than Sane/Coman, more starts)
Tolisso - #3 midfielder
Costa - #4 winger
Hoffmann - #3 goalkeeper

If we were to apply the same injuries to other teams (again, by minutes/scoring), you'd roughly have the following players out hurt:

Chelsea would be missing Abraham, Kante, Silva, Werner, Jorginho, Ziyech, Caballero
City would be missing Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Laporte, Torres, Fernandinho, Carson
Dortmund would be missing Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham, Can, Delaney, Brandt, Unbehaun
Real Madrid would be missing Benzema, Modric, Ramos, Asensio, Valverde, Rodrygo, Altube
Liverpool would be missing Salah, Fabinho, Mane, Phillips, Henderson, Shaqiri, Kelleher
PSG would be missing Mbappe, Herrera, Di Maria, Diallo, Gueye, Draxler, Bulka

Now compare that to their most recent UCL starting XI/bench, fill in the spots, and look at what those benches would look like once you've taken all that into account....it's equally frightening for all of them, pretty much.


Tried to take this into account and fill out their starting XI's and benches accordingly. Well, kind of. Didn't bother finding players to fill out the rest of the bench. Take out the players above, fill in from their benches as best as you can, and you might get something like this...

Chelsea, Starting XI:
Havertz
Pulisic / CHO
Chilwell / Emerson / Mount/ James
Alonso / Rudiger / Zouma
Mendy
Bench: Giroud, Kepa, Christensen, Azpilicueta, ???

Manchester City:
Sterling / Jesus / Silva
Zinchenko / de Bruyne / Rodri
Cancelo / Dias / Stones / Walker
Ederson
Bench: Steffen, Trafford, Ake, Garcia, Aguero, Mendy, ???

BVB:
Reus / Tigges / Knauff
Dahoud / Schulz / Reyna
Guerreiro / Akanji / Hummels / Morey
Hitz
Bench: Burki, Drljaca, Reinier, Meunier, Passlack, Piszczek, T. Hazard, ???

Real Madrid:
Vinicius Jr / Mariano / Arribas
Kroos / Casemiro / Isco
Mendy / Nacho / Militao / Vazquez
Courtois
Bench: Lunin, Chust, Odrizola, Marcelo, ???

Liverpool:
Jota / Firmino / C. Jones
Wijnaldum / Keita / Thiago
Robertson / Kabak / B. Davies / Trent
Alisson
Bench: Adrian, H. Davies, Cain, Williams, Tsimikas, Milner, Oxlade-Chamberlain, ???

PSG:
Nagera
Kean / Neymar / Sarabia
Paredes / Verratti
Bakker / Kimpembe / Pereira / Dagba
Navas
Bench: Rico, Saidani, Kehrer, Pembele, Rafinha, Florenzi, ???

(I didn't bother with Porto because frankly I don't pay enough attention to Primeira Liga enough to even take a guess. Anyways, doesn't look so terrible for us when you think of it this way...)
God Bless Thomas Müller
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:30 am

#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
aterford wrote:Have to consider not just the benches, but also the starting XI's...The only reason our bench was made into a big concern is because of the number/quality of injuries we had. None of those benches would look nearly as good if they had half those players forced into the starting XI due to injury, like we did.

Look at it like this - here are the players we currently have out - by minutes/scoring:
Lewandowski - our leading scorer
Goretzka - our #2 starting midfielder, highest-scoring midfielder, and #5 scorer overall
Sule - Our #2/#3 CB, roughly on par with Boateng
Gnabry - #2 starting winger (less total minutes than Sane/Coman, more starts)
Tolisso - #3 midfielder
Costa - #4 winger
Hoffmann - #3 goalkeeper

If we were to apply the same injuries to other teams (again, by minutes/scoring), you'd roughly have the following players out hurt:

Chelsea would be missing Abraham, Kante, Silva, Werner, Jorginho, Ziyech, Caballero
City would be missing Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Laporte, Torres, Fernandinho, Carson
Dortmund would be missing Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham, Can, Delaney, Brandt, Unbehaun
Real Madrid would be missing Benzema, Modric, Ramos, Asensio, Valverde, Rodrygo, Altube
Liverpool would be missing Salah, Fabinho, Mane, Phillips, Henderson, Shaqiri, Kelleher
PSG would be missing Mbappe, Herrera, Di Maria, Diallo, Gueye, Draxler, Bulka

Now compare that to their most recent UCL starting XI/bench, fill in the spots, and look at what those benches would look like once you've taken all that into account....it's equally frightening for all of them, pretty much.
Yes. The thing is, we spent all the transfer period saying again and again (as did most pundits) that this season the schedule would be packed and there world be a game every 3 days, and hence heavy metal football was no realistic with a limited bench. It turned out to be true.

Flick did nothing to address this problem. He didn't implement a more cautious energy-efficient variation to our game and he also kept Roca, Musi, Costa, Lucas, Sarr chronically under utilized. Of those, i don't blame him for Costa. The others should have be used more, IF ANYTHING to prevent our starters from being burnout at this stage of the season, as they clearly are.
Sarr? Seriously?
Sorry, I meant Sarr. Costa (while I don't like him one bit) could have also been rotated. Sarr is just too bad.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:24 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:[quote="aterford"]Have to consider not just the benches, but also the starting XI's...The only reason our bench was made into a big concern is because of the number/quality of injuries we had. None of those benches would look nearly as good if they had half those players forced into the starting XI due to injury, like we did.

Look at it like this - here are the players we currently have out - by minutes/scoring:
Lewandowski - our leading scorer
Goretzka - our #2 starting midfielder, highest-scoring midfielder, and #5 scorer overall
Sule - Our #2/#3 CB, roughly on par with Boateng
Gnabry - #2 starting winger (less total minutes than Sane/Coman, more starts)
Tolisso - #3 midfielder
Costa - #4 winger
Hoffmann - #3 goalkeeper

If we were to apply the same injuries to other teams (again, by minutes/scoring), you'd roughly have the following players out hurt:

Chelsea would be missing Abraham, Kante, Silva, Werner, Jorginho, Ziyech, Caballero
City would be missing Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Laporte, Torres, Fernandinho, Carson
Dortmund would be missing Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham, Can, Delaney, Brandt, Unbehaun
Real Madrid would be missing Benzema, Modric, Ramos, Asensio, Valverde, Rodrygo, Altube
Liverpool would be missing Salah, Fabinho, Mane, Phillips, Henderson, Shaqiri, Kelleher
PSG would be missing Mbappe, Herrera, Di Maria, Diallo, Gueye, Draxler, Bulka

Now compare that to their most recent UCL starting XI/bench, fill in the spots, and look at what those benches would look like once you've taken all that into account....it's equally frightening for all of them, pretty much.
Yes. The thing is, we spent all the transfer period saying again and again (as did most pundits) that this season the schedule would be packed and there world be a game every 3 days, and hence heavy metal football was no realistic with a limited bench. It turned out to be true.

Flick did nothing to address this problem. He didn't implement a more cautious energy-efficient variation to our game and he also kept Roca, Musi, Costa, Lucas, Sarr chronically under utilized. Of those, i don't blame him for Costa. The others should have be used more, IF ANYTHING to prevent our starters from being burnout at this stage of the season, as they clearly are.
Sarr? Seriously?
Sorry, I meant Sarr. Costa (while I don't like him one bit) could have also been rotated. Sarr is just too bad.[/quote]I think both... Could you honestly see us win Bundesliga with those guys regularly playing 70-80 minutes?
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:39 pm

#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.
Erm, did you see fluent attacks yesterday? Did you see effective ones last week? It’s cause somebody sabotaged our play with backheels and misplaced 5m passes... And I am not exaggerating, he tried 8 backheels and at least failed to find Müller -literally being the player next to him- twice in what would have been a great attack...

As a striker, Choupo's main job in the team is to score goals and that he did. 2 very important ones at key moments. He's not in RL9'S league and it would be foolish to expect him to have a similar "fluent" impact on our attacking play as Lewandowski.

The Robert-Thomas connection is brutal because they almost have telepathic understanding between each other and can read each other's next move and that makes them a lethal duo. Expecting EMCM to have the same chemistry with Müller is naive.

Regardless of your personal narrative, The hard facts are these:
1. EMCM scored 2 goals in a tie that Bayern drew on aggregate.
2. Neuer's error in the first leg proved fatal
3. Coman and Sané had below average games and severely lacked end product.

In Lewandowski's absence the burden to score was to be shared by the forwards and midfielders. In reality not one of our wingers or midfielders threatened the goal. If any one of our wingers/midfielders chips in with even a single goal we're having a totally different conversation tonight.

Making EMCM the scapegoat for this away goals elimination where he actually scored a couple and gave his team a good chance to advance sounds extremely silly at best and malicious at worst.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby T4L10N » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:26 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.
Erm, did you see fluent attacks yesterday? Did you see effective ones last week? It’s cause somebody sabotaged our play with backheels and misplaced 5m passes... And I am not exaggerating, he tried 8 backheels and at least failed to find Müller -literally being the player next to him- twice in what would have been a great attack...

As a striker, Choupo's main job in the team is to score goals and that he did. 2 very important ones at key moments. He's not in RL9'S league and it would be foolish to expect him to have a similar "fluent" impact on our attacking play as Lewandowski.

The Robert-Thomas connection is brutal because they almost have telepathic understanding between each other and can read each other's next move and that makes them a lethal duo. Expecting EMCM to have the same chemistry with Müller is naive.

Regardless of your personal narrative, The hard facts are these:
1. EMCM scored 2 goals in a tie that Bayern drew on aggregate.
2. Neuer's error in the first leg proved fatal
3. Coman and Sané had below average games and severely lacked end product.

In Lewandowski's absence the burden to score was to be shared by the forwards and midfielders. In reality not one of our wingers or midfielders threatened the goal. If any one of our wingers/midfielders chips in with even a single goal we're having a totally different conversation tonight.

Making EMCM the scapegoat for this away goals elimination where he actually scored a couple and gave his team a good chance to advance sounds extremely silly at best and malicious at worst.


I agree on everything except Neuer. The first goal was definitely his fault but after that he pulled so many tough saves that I lost count, especially in the second game. The loss is to be blamed on Coman, Sane, Alaba, Kimmich above all.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:31 pm

Ulreich also had an excellent season for Bayern in Neuer's absence three years ago but it's his only blemish against Real Madrid that will be remembered by history.

Neuer was outstanding over both legs but sadly it's that one mistake that will stay forever because if he saves that Mbappe shot then Bayern most probably would have gone to the semifinals. That's just how the world works you can do a hundred things right but one major mistake will overshadow all the good deeds.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:33 pm

America USA wrote:Ulreich also had an excellent season for Bayern in Neuer's absence three years ago but it's his only blemish against Real Madrid that will be remembered by history.

Neuer was outstanding over both legs but sadly it's that one mistake that will stay forever because if he saves that Mbappe shot then Bayern most probably would have gone to the semifinals. That's just how the world works you can do a hundred things right but one major mistake will overshadow all the good deeds.

Whaaaaaaaaat?
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:39 pm

MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:Ulreich also had an excellent season for Bayern in Neuer's absence three years ago but it's his only blemish against Real Madrid that will be remembered by history.

Neuer was outstanding over both legs but sadly it's that one mistake that will stay forever because if he saves that Mbappe shot then Bayern most probably would have gone to the semifinals. That's just how the world works you can do a hundred things right but one major mistake will overshadow all the good deeds.

Whaaaaaaaaat?
He's right.
Imo neuer and sane costed us the semi finals
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:46 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:Ulreich also had an excellent season for Bayern in Neuer's absence three years ago but it's his only blemish against Real Madrid that will be remembered by history.

Neuer was outstanding over both legs but sadly it's that one mistake that will stay forever because if he saves that Mbappe shot then Bayern most probably would have gone to the semifinals. That's just how the world works you can do a hundred things right but one major mistake will overshadow all the good deeds.

Whaaaaaaaaat?
He's right.
Imo neuer and sane costed us the semi finals

So what? Kahn also had a similar mistake against Real Madrid, but he is not remembered by history by that singular mistake.

Messi missed a one on one against Neuer in a World Cup final (considerably more important than the first 2 mins of the first leg of a CL quarterfinal), and I'm pretty sure that when people mention Messi in 20 years' time it won't be that miss that will first pop up in people's minds.

There is no way any sane person will ever remember Neuer by that mistake against PSG. But yes, there are some insane people in this world I guess.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:51 pm

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.
Erm, did you see fluent attacks yesterday? Did you see effective ones last week? It’s cause somebody sabotaged our play with backheels and misplaced 5m passes... And I am not exaggerating, he tried 8 backheels and at least failed to find Müller -literally being the player next to him- twice in what would have been a great attack...

As a striker, Choupo's main job in the team is to score goals and that he did. 2 very important ones at key moments. He's not in RL9'S league and it would be foolish to expect him to have a similar "fluent" impact on our attacking play as Lewandowski.

The Robert-Thomas connection is brutal because they almost have telepathic understanding between each other and can read each other's next move and that makes them a lethal duo. Expecting EMCM to have the same chemistry with Müller is naive.

Regardless of your personal narrative, The hard facts are these:
1. EMCM scored 2 goals in a tie that Bayern drew on aggregate.
2. Neuer's error in the first leg proved fatal
3. Coman and Sané had below average games and severely lacked end product.

In Lewandowski's absence the burden to score was to be shared by the forwards and midfielders. In reality not one of our wingers or midfielders threatened the goal. If any one of our wingers/midfielders chips in with even a single goal we're having a totally different conversation tonight.

Making EMCM the scapegoat for this away goals elimination where he actually scored a couple and gave his team a good chance to advance sounds extremely silly at best and malicious at worst.
Your perception of a striker is antiquated... I am not saying he has to have the same chemistry with Müller... I am not even saying he has to set up a lot of attacks (once he set up Alaba perfectly for a shot he bottled...) - I am saying I expect him to be able to pass to a player 5m away without mixing up jerseys or the player starving waiting for the ball on the way over...
We are by tradition a team that needs a lot of chances to score... Great he scored an away goal, but had he done his job in Munich, we wouldn’t have even had to worry about the second leg... It’s not scapegoating, of course others messed up as well... But he is right next to Süle in my book... Goes wothout saying that probably no one has ever had such a big impact on a tie in as little time as Süle...
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby T4L10N » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:55 am

MUTU wrote:So what? Kahn also had a similar mistake against Real Madrid, but he is not remembered by history by that singular mistake.

Messi missed a one on one against Neuer in a World Cup final (considerably more important than the first 2 mins of the first leg of a CL quarterfinal), and I'm pretty sure that when people mention Messi in 20 years' time it won't be that miss that will first pop up in people's minds.

There is no way any sane person will ever remember Neuer by that mistake against PSG. But yes, there are some insane people in this world I guess.


Right but many people remember Kahn not for mistakes vs RM (2002 second leg and 2004 1st leg) but for that one in WC final, even though his hand was fractured and he still played (and Germany would have never been in that final if not Kahn and Ballack). As for Messi, I am laughing when people blame Higuan and Palacio while Messi also missed that 1vs1.

People just tend to remember only those facts that suit them. I personally will always remember Kahn for CL 1/2 vs RM in 01, final vs Valencia, WC 02 GOAT performance and the moment he gave paper to Lehmann in WC 06 1/4.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:23 am

America USA wrote:
#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.
Erm, did you see fluent attacks yesterday? Did you see effective ones last week? It’s cause somebody sabotaged our play with backheels and misplaced 5m passes... And I am not exaggerating, he tried 8 backheels and at least failed to find Müller -literally being the player next to him- twice in what would have been a great attack...

As a striker, Choupo's main job in the team is to score goals and that he did. 2 very important ones at key moments. He's not in RL9'S league and it would be foolish to expect him to have a similar "fluent" impact on our attacking play as Lewandowski.

The Robert-Thomas connection is brutal because they almost have telepathic understanding between each other and can read each other's next move and that makes them a lethal duo. Expecting EMCM to have the same chemistry with Müller is naive.

Regardless of your personal narrative, The hard facts are these:
1. EMCM scored 2 goals in a tie that Bayern drew on aggregate.
2. Neuer's error in the first leg proved fatal
3. Coman and Sané had below average games and severely lacked end product.

In Lewandowski's absence the burden to score was to be shared by the forwards and midfielders. In reality not one of our wingers or midfielders threatened the goal. If any one of our wingers/midfielders chips in with even a single goal we're having a totally different conversation tonight.

Making EMCM the scapegoat for this away goals elimination where he actually scored a couple and gave his team a good chance to advance sounds extremely silly at best and malicious at worst.
I don’t fully agree, but broadly yes.

Choupo messed up a lot of chances, even really big ones. In the first leg he had one at least as bad as Sane’s in the first half on Tuesday. He also wasted (not even messed up, downright wasted) several chances with senseless backheels which he can’t even do well. In that regard he was a big problem and deserves criticism.

However, yes, ultimately even with all that considered he was the only forward who stepped up to the occasion. Coman and Sane definitely are more to blame. Like you said replacing Lewa has to be a shared task and none of our other usual goalscorers showed up other than Muller.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:59 pm

T4L10N wrote:
MUTU wrote:So what? Kahn also had a similar mistake against Real Madrid, but he is not remembered by history by that singular mistake.

Messi missed a one on one against Neuer in a World Cup final (considerably more important than the first 2 mins of the first leg of a CL quarterfinal), and I'm pretty sure that when people mention Messi in 20 years' time it won't be that miss that will first pop up in people's minds.

There is no way any sane person will ever remember Neuer by that mistake against PSG. But yes, there are some insane people in this world I guess.


Right but many people remember Kahn not for mistakes vs RM (2002 second leg and 2004 1st leg) but for that one in WC final, even though his hand was fractured and he still played (and Germany would have never been in that final if not Kahn and Ballack). As for Messi, I am laughing when people blame Higuan and Palacio while Messi also missed that 1vs1.

People just tend to remember only those facts that suit them. I personally will always remember Kahn for CL 1/2 vs RM in 01, final vs Valencia, WC 02 GOAT performance and the moment he gave paper to Lehmann in WC 06 1/4.

Huh? Didn't Lehmann write that note himself?
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby T4L10N » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:51 pm

MUTU wrote:
T4L10N wrote:
MUTU wrote:So what? Kahn also had a similar mistake against Real Madrid, but he is not remembered by history by that singular mistake.

Messi missed a one on one against Neuer in a World Cup final (considerably more important than the first 2 mins of the first leg of a CL quarterfinal), and I'm pretty sure that when people mention Messi in 20 years' time it won't be that miss that will first pop up in people's minds.

There is no way any sane person will ever remember Neuer by that mistake against PSG. But yes, there are some insane people in this world I guess.


Right but many people remember Kahn not for mistakes vs RM (2002 second leg and 2004 1st leg) but for that one in WC final, even though his hand was fractured and he still played (and Germany would have never been in that final if not Kahn and Ballack). As for Messi, I am laughing when people blame Higuan and Palacio while Messi also missed that 1vs1.

People just tend to remember only those facts that suit them. I personally will always remember Kahn for CL 1/2 vs RM in 01, final vs Valencia, WC 02 GOAT performance and the moment he gave paper to Lehmann in WC 06 1/4.

Huh? Didn't Lehmann write that note himself?


My bad, GK coach gave him as far as I remember, Kahn just encouraged him. Anyway, that moment was very heartwarming
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby IsiahRashad » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:10 am

Salihamidžić: “Correct. Dayot Upamecano will play for FC Bayern for the next five years."
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