You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

[2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 pm

Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis after 90 minutes
9
39%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis after extra time
1
4%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis on penalties
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis on penalties
1
4%
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis after extra time
3
13%
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis after 90 minutes
9
39%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby munchen99 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:56 pm



Fully speculating here, but watching the game live when I saw this chance I felt that Sane didn't pass to Musiala on purpose. He stopped looked up and made the worst pass possible.

Anyone else feel that?
User avatar
munchen99
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 7:30 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 99 times
Been thanked: 212 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:03 pm

aterford wrote:Have to consider not just the benches, but also the starting XI's...The only reason our bench was made into a big concern is because of the number/quality of injuries we had. None of those benches would look nearly as good if they had half those players forced into the starting XI due to injury, like we did.

Look at it like this - here are the players we currently have out - by minutes/scoring:
Lewandowski - our leading scorer
Goretzka - our #2 starting midfielder, highest-scoring midfielder, and #5 scorer overall
Sule - Our #2/#3 CB, roughly on par with Boateng
Gnabry - #2 starting winger (less total minutes than Sane/Coman, more starts)
Tolisso - #3 midfielder
Costa - #4 winger
Hoffmann - #3 goalkeeper

If we were to apply the same injuries to other teams (again, by minutes/scoring), you'd roughly have the following players out hurt:

Chelsea would be missing Abraham, Kante, Silva, Werner, Jorginho, Ziyech, Caballero
City would be missing Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Laporte, Torres, Fernandinho, Carson
Dortmund would be missing Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham, Can, Delaney, Brandt, Unbehaun
Real Madrid would be missing Benzema, Modric, Ramos, Asensio, Valverde, Rodrygo, Altube
Liverpool would be missing Salah, Fabinho, Mane, Phillips, Henderson, Shaqiri, Kelleher
PSG would be missing Mbappe, Herrera, Di Maria, Diallo, Gueye, Draxler, Bulka

Now compare that to their most recent UCL starting XI/bench, fill in the spots, and look at what those benches would look like once you've taken all that into account....it's equally frightening for all of them, pretty much.
Yes. The thing is, we spent all the transfer period saying again and again (as did most pundits) that this season the schedule would be packed and there world be a game every 3 days, and hence heavy metal football was no realistic with a limited bench. It turned out to be true.

Flick did nothing to address this problem. He didn't implement a more cautious energy-efficient variation to our game and he also kept Roca, Musi, Costa, Lucas, Sarr chronically under utilized. Of those, i don't blame him for Sarr. The others should have be used more, IF ANYTHING to prevent our starters from being burnout at this stage of the season, as they clearly are.
Last edited by PunkCapitalist on Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PunkCapitalist
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8933
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:15 pm
Has thanked: 3811 times
Been thanked: 3527 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:11 pm

munchen99 wrote:


Fully speculating here, but watching the game live when I saw this chance I felt that Sane didn't pass to Musiala on purpose. He stopped looked up and made the worst pass possible.

Anyone else feel that?

I don't think he did it on purpose but nonetheless it was an atrocious decision from him with the pass he tried. Hopefully he takes the failure personally and comes back stronger after this debacle.
User avatar
America USA
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 1146 times

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby CiriacoS » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:47 pm

aterford wrote:
CiriacoS wrote:“Reasonably acquired” is a standard which for Bayern is determined very similarly as if the club was a mid-table Bundesliga club and not a two times treble winner. Are you not able to see that THAT is actually the core of the whole problem for us and the reason why are we are not able to maintain success in Europe?

What is reasonable if you don’t even try? We have not even tried to bring any of these players. Odegaard is reasonable for Arsenal but not for the European champions? Cavani is reasonable for United but not for Bayern. De jong is reasonable for Barca with a 1bn in debts but not for the economically best-run club in Europe?

Dont you see that even we as fans have absolutely lowered all of our expectations. Nothing is reasonable now unless its a free transfer. Its embarassing really.

And then we ask ourseleves yesterday what is the problem. The problem is making the same mistake over and over and over again. At the point of our greatest successes instead investing heavily we just sit back and hope that it will last forever. Same thing was with Roberry era. It had to be that Arjen is 35 years old in order for us to say OK maybe we need a new winger. Same will happen with Lewandowski. Absolutely the same. Flick was the first person to loudly point out this things and will now suffer the consequences.

Its just bullshit dont you see. They want maximum success with minimum efort and profits for the people at the top.


Let's not straw-man. You're getting things mixed up and seem to have only focused on the financial aspect; do go back and re-read and you'll see that's not the only component at all. Reasonably acquired" means not just that it's financially doable, but also that the player would be willing to join, their club would be willing to sell, they would be okay with the role they'd be given here, and so on. If you take nothing else from all this, let it be that it's not just money that determines how likely a transfer is to happen or not. Ability/willingness to pay is certainly a factor, but that's not the end-all, be-all and it's certainly not a guarantee of a transfer going through.

Of course we could have *afforded* Cavani or Giroud or whoever - but that doesn't mean they were ever particularly likely to come to Bayern. Look at the role Cavani and Giroud have/had and compare it to the role Choupo-Moting had at Bayern, pre-Lewy injury (Pre-injury as this is obviously the role Choupo would've initially signed on to). Cavani and Giroud were basically given starter's minutes; that's not the case with Choupo. So it's not just a matter of being able to pay for the player - which we can do - but also about convincing a player who can basically start elsewhere to instead come here and be a player who will primarily only play when Lewy is hurt or needing rested.

And the same is true for many of the other players mentioned.

Odegaard is on loan at Arsenal, no? He's still under contract with Real Madrid. I guess we could have taken him on loan, but is that in Madrid's best interests? As we know, a big incentive for sending a player out on loan is either a.) for that player's development or b.) getting the player's wages off the books (usually ahead of a sale). Odegaard wouldn't start ahead of Muller/Goretzka/Kimmich while he's essentially been a starter at Arsenal. Look at it from Madrid's perspective - if you're wanting to develop a player, would you rather send him to a club where he's ostensibly a starter or send him to a club where he's 3rd-choice in midfield? And similar for Aouar: He starts at Lyon. Even if we were to pay some 50m for him, would he want to leave a starting role for a rotation one? Again: not just a matter of money.

de Jong is probably a financial one, but I'd be *awfully* hesitant to essentially reduce it to "Barca did it so why couldn't/shouldn't we?" Barca are in a terrible financial situation precisely because of situations like this. We are the best-run club in Europe because we don't get in those situations. It's not that complicated. We should also keep in mind that de Jong moved to Barca in 2019, not 2020, so that doesn't really have any bearing on last summer in the first place (unless you really expected us to try and buy a 90m player who just moved a year ago and is under contract until 2026, then I don't know what to tell you)

If you are bored you can always take a few minutes to go back through my post history and you'll see that I've criticized the board's approach to transfers, how our reluctance to take on any debt serves to set us back at times, and how we are often too risk-averse, and so on - might be worth looking into before projecting this "lowered all expectations, nothing is reasonable unless it's free" onto me. Even with all that said, your proposed transfer window would've cost us probably 120m on the low end and closer to 200m on the high end. That was never going to happen, it would have literally been like the second or third most costly window in Europe, lol.

Like I said, I've had my fair share of complaints about our transfer policy, but this isn't FIFA and expecting any club to operate like it is will always set you up for disappointment. We sure could've done better than Roca, Sarr, Choupo, Costa, but de Jong, Cancelo, Cavani, etc was always a pipe dream.


And that's exactly my point. Apologies for not making myself clear enough. I never said that only the aforementioned players like de Jong Odegaard would exclusively contribute to the success of Bayern in this year's CL. They were mentioned as examples of top of my head for exemplificatory purposes. What is crucial in my point is the simple fact that we could have, we should have and we must have done better than Costa, Choupo, Sarr and Roca. Its simple as that.

Club of Bayern's magnitude, to put it very simple for you, must not in any case afford to bring player like EMCM to be a substitute for the world's best player. And please don't come back with that bullshit argument - "but EMCH is a nice guy and he is ready to sit on the bench and to be happy". What are we?? Are we some Sunday league team or are we the best team and the world? You damn right come here not to be happy if you sit on the bench. You come here to fight for your please. Yes, I know, there is no better striker than Lewy in the world and he starts automatically. But we all knew that this was going to be a precedent season in which there will be a plenty of playing time for everyone. You want to tell me that EMCH is the only football player in the world who is ready to come at the best club in Europe and to compete and learn from the best? And that there is no other better player than him ready to do that? I mean come on.....

Same applies for the RB position and for the midfield. After becoming the best club in Europe, and after playing the way we played, after humiliating Barcelona in front of the whole world, you want to tell me that EMCM and Sarr are the only ones we were able to find ready to play for us?? It's pure comedy. The truth is, that were obviously only that competent and capable in our operations in the transfer market. And if you ask me, that's a reason to fire your sporting director not your coach.
CiriacoS
Getting the hang of it
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 29 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:54 pm

The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.
User avatar
America USA
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 1146 times

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby T4L10N » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:54 pm

CiriacoS wrote:
aterford wrote:
CiriacoS wrote:“Reasonably acquired” is a standard which for Bayern is determined very similarly as if the club was a mid-table Bundesliga club and not a two times treble winner. Are you not able to see that THAT is actually the core of the whole problem for us and the reason why are we are not able to maintain success in Europe?

What is reasonable if you don’t even try? We have not even tried to bring any of these players. Odegaard is reasonable for Arsenal but not for the European champions? Cavani is reasonable for United but not for Bayern. De jong is reasonable for Barca with a 1bn in debts but not for the economically best-run club in Europe?

Dont you see that even we as fans have absolutely lowered all of our expectations. Nothing is reasonable now unless its a free transfer. Its embarassing really.

And then we ask ourseleves yesterday what is the problem. The problem is making the same mistake over and over and over again. At the point of our greatest successes instead investing heavily we just sit back and hope that it will last forever. Same thing was with Roberry era. It had to be that Arjen is 35 years old in order for us to say OK maybe we need a new winger. Same will happen with Lewandowski. Absolutely the same. Flick was the first person to loudly point out this things and will now suffer the consequences.

Its just bullshit dont you see. They want maximum success with minimum efort and profits for the people at the top.


Let's not straw-man. You're getting things mixed up and seem to have only focused on the financial aspect; do go back and re-read and you'll see that's not the only component at all. Reasonably acquired" means not just that it's financially doable, but also that the player would be willing to join, their club would be willing to sell, they would be okay with the role they'd be given here, and so on. If you take nothing else from all this, let it be that it's not just money that determines how likely a transfer is to happen or not. Ability/willingness to pay is certainly a factor, but that's not the end-all, be-all and it's certainly not a guarantee of a transfer going through.

Of course we could have *afforded* Cavani or Giroud or whoever - but that doesn't mean they were ever particularly likely to come to Bayern. Look at the role Cavani and Giroud have/had and compare it to the role Choupo-Moting had at Bayern, pre-Lewy injury (Pre-injury as this is obviously the role Choupo would've initially signed on to). Cavani and Giroud were basically given starter's minutes; that's not the case with Choupo. So it's not just a matter of being able to pay for the player - which we can do - but also about convincing a player who can basically start elsewhere to instead come here and be a player who will primarily only play when Lewy is hurt or needing rested.

And the same is true for many of the other players mentioned.

Odegaard is on loan at Arsenal, no? He's still under contract with Real Madrid. I guess we could have taken him on loan, but is that in Madrid's best interests? As we know, a big incentive for sending a player out on loan is either a.) for that player's development or b.) getting the player's wages off the books (usually ahead of a sale). Odegaard wouldn't start ahead of Muller/Goretzka/Kimmich while he's essentially been a starter at Arsenal. Look at it from Madrid's perspective - if you're wanting to develop a player, would you rather send him to a club where he's ostensibly a starter or send him to a club where he's 3rd-choice in midfield? And similar for Aouar: He starts at Lyon. Even if we were to pay some 50m for him, would he want to leave a starting role for a rotation one? Again: not just a matter of money.

de Jong is probably a financial one, but I'd be *awfully* hesitant to essentially reduce it to "Barca did it so why couldn't/shouldn't we?" Barca are in a terrible financial situation precisely because of situations like this. We are the best-run club in Europe because we don't get in those situations. It's not that complicated. We should also keep in mind that de Jong moved to Barca in 2019, not 2020, so that doesn't really have any bearing on last summer in the first place (unless you really expected us to try and buy a 90m player who just moved a year ago and is under contract until 2026, then I don't know what to tell you)

If you are bored you can always take a few minutes to go back through my post history and you'll see that I've criticized the board's approach to transfers, how our reluctance to take on any debt serves to set us back at times, and how we are often too risk-averse, and so on - might be worth looking into before projecting this "lowered all expectations, nothing is reasonable unless it's free" onto me. Even with all that said, your proposed transfer window would've cost us probably 120m on the low end and closer to 200m on the high end. That was never going to happen, it would have literally been like the second or third most costly window in Europe, lol.

Like I said, I've had my fair share of complaints about our transfer policy, but this isn't FIFA and expecting any club to operate like it is will always set you up for disappointment. We sure could've done better than Roca, Sarr, Choupo, Costa, but de Jong, Cancelo, Cavani, etc was always a pipe dream.


And that's exactly my point. Apologies for not making myself clear enough. I never said that only the aforementioned players like de Jong Odegaard would exclusively contribute to the success of Bayern in this year's CL. They were mentioned as examples of top of my head for exemplificatory purposes. What is crucial in my point is the simple fact that we could have, we should have and we must have done better than Costa, Choupo, Sarr and Roca. Its simple as that.

Club of Bayern's magnitude, to put it very simple for you, must not in any case afford to bring player like EMCM to be a substitute for the world's best player. And please don't come back with that bullshit argument - "but EMCH is a nice guy and he is ready to sit on the bench and to be happy". What are we?? Are we some Sunday league team or are we the best team and the world? You damn right come here not to be happy if you sit on the bench. You come here to fight for your please. Yes, I know, there is no better striker than Lewy in the world and he starts automatically. But we all knew that this was going to be a precedent season in which there will be a plenty of playing time for everyone. You want to tell me that EMCH is the only football player in the world who is ready to come at the best club in Europe and to compete and learn from the best? And that there is no other better player than him ready to do that? I mean come on.....

Same applies for the RB position and for the midfield. After becoming the best club in Europe, and after playing the way we played, after humiliating Barcelona in front of the whole world, you want to tell me that EMCM and Sarr are the only ones we were able to find ready to play for us?? It's pure comedy. The truth is, that were obviously only that competent and capable in our operations in the transfer market. And if you ask me, that's a reason to fire your sporting director not your coach.


You really blame EMCM for yesterday's defeat, mate? As if it is his fault that neither of Coman, Sane, Kimmich forgot how to pass the ball at all, yesterday. He is the least to be blamed after Lucas, Neuer and maybe Boateng from entire team.
T4L10N
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:17 am
Has thanked: 461 times
Been thanked: 216 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby America USA » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:58 pm

^ Although Neuer and Boateng redeemed themselves yesterday I don't think it is appropriate to absolve them of all blame for the elimination.

Neuer on that first goal must've done better, if he doesn't make that mistake the entire tie would've been played differently with Bayern not being under pressure from the get go. And I know Mbappe scored a world class goal but Boateng maybe could've done better on that third goal in Munich.
User avatar
America USA
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3700
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm
Has thanked: 640 times
Been thanked: 1146 times

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:02 pm

munchen99 wrote:Fully speculating here, but watching the game live when I saw this chance I felt that Sane didn't pass to Musiala on purpose. He stopped looked up and made the worst pass possible.

Anyone else feel that?


What I am hoping the most is that it's one of a couple things:
1. He thought Paredes would be able to move to cut off the passing lane between him and Musiala
2. He thought dropping it back to Pavard wouldn't be any more beneficial

Or I mean, maybe somehow he just really really badly mishit it - playing across face of goal wouldn't have been the worst idea if he'd gotten some air under the ball, might've got lucky and knicked a header. But if that's what he was going for, he botched it really bad lol. Definitely looked to intentionally be driven low across.
God Bless Thomas Müller
User avatar
aterford
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am
Has thanked: 4726 times
Been thanked: 4285 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:07 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Yes. The thing is, we spent all the transfer period saying again and again (as did most pundits) that this season the schedule would be packed and there world be a game every 3 days, and hence heavy metal football was no realistic with a limited bench. It turned out to be true.

Flick did nothing to address this problem. He didn't implement a more cautious energy-efficient variation to our game and he also kept Roca, Musi, Costa, Lucas, Sarr chronically under utilized. Of those, i don't blame him for Costa. The others should have be used more, IF ANYTHING to prevent our starters from being burnout at this stage of the season, as they clearly are.


That's generally the feeling I've come away with. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but at the end of the day our system is basically predicated on being able to outscore the opposition even if we concede. When you lose 60% of your goals, it's pretty much impossible to maintain that system, or at least not to the same degree. I don't mean it as a slam on Flick but I wonder if that's a bit of inexperience showing. Flick is still relatively new as a head manager, especially given the expectations/balancing act at a top club like Bayern. Last season I feel like it was basically a matter of righting the ship and then "don't fix what's not broken" - keep basically the same XI going all the way. The big COVID-break helped there too, I think. But there just wasn't a huge need (or space) to change much up last season, and I am wondering if some of that carried over this season, even though I think perhaps the more mature thing would've been to spend more time/effort on working on rotation players more frequently.
And I'm probably repeating myself, but some of it is just simple. It was clear in our approach to the Union match that we weren't really going all out for a win and were okay with dropping points there; it was obviously secondary focus to the UCL match coming up. So why do Muller and Kimmich play a full 90? They were both clearly gassed very early in the game yesterday. I don't want to blame the loss on any one specific thing like that, but a fresh and rested Muller and Kimmich very well could've been the difference-maker(s). As I've said a thousand times, I know we could've (should've!) done better in the summer window, but that's no excuse for running your players into the ground...
God Bless Thomas Müller
User avatar
aterford
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am
Has thanked: 4726 times
Been thanked: 4285 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby T4L10N » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:07 pm

America USA wrote:^ Although Neuer and Boateng redeemed themselves yesterday I don't think it is appropriate to absolve them of all blame for the elimination.

Neuer on that first goal must've done better, if he doesn't make that mistake the entire tie would've been played differently with Bayern not being under pressure from the get go. And I know Mbappe scored a world class goal but Boateng maybe could've done better on that third goal in Munich.


I was talking regarding second match only. Although Neuer made many wonderful saves which should have been converted to goal so kind of redeemed himself and kept us in the game. As for Boateng, that third goal was more of a Mbappe creation but still agree that Boateng should have played better.
T4L10N
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:17 am
Has thanked: 461 times
Been thanked: 216 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:08 pm

America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.


Random fact:

With his goal yesterday, Choupo-Moting scored in both the home and away leg of a UCL KO tie.

Lewandowski has only scored in both the home and away leg of a UCL KO tie just twice in his career. (Chelsea last season, and I believe Arsenal a few years back)

(of course that's not to say Choupo is better than Lewy or whatever, just found it mildly interesting)
God Bless Thomas Müller
User avatar
aterford
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am
Has thanked: 4726 times
Been thanked: 4285 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:22 pm

Alexander wrote:
#12 wrote:We don’t have "one of the best keepers", that’s blasphemy!

Well, look at the benches of the other teams... (also, I‘m not so sure Goretzka/Kimmich is the best midfield anymore... They’re also responsible for securingdefense, you know?!)

Liverpool had Firmino, Milner, Ox, THIAGO, Adrian, Shaqiri, Davies, Jones, Rhys-Williams and a few others - better depth

RM: Marcelo, Isco, Valverde, Rodrygo and a few others - depth not worse

You saw Paris, and they had it worse than us!

Here‘s Chelsea: Giroud, Caballero, Alonso, Zouma, Ziyech, Werner, Abraham, CHO, Christensen, Kepa, Emerson - insane depth...

We have a very good starting XI - but we can barely substitute without a quality loss...
Tolisso, Süle and EMCM are jokes btw, if it wasn’t for the pandemic I‘d get rid of their asses yesterday along with Sarr, Costa and Roca and sadly Javi...

Also, we‘re losing 3 players in summer, two of which have had vital roles so far, and we‘re replacing them with ONE player as of now...

Let

that

sink

in

...


We have to agree to disagree. In my world Shaqiri, Jones,Rhys-Williams,Milner etc aren`t exactly worldbeaters. And I can`t see how Zouma,CHO, Christensen and Emerson are so much better than what we have. Is your point that we would have progressed with their benches instead of ours? Remember to take out the injuries.
My point is that their benches easier closely replicate their first XI...

Meaning: If a player is not fit, they lose less quality playing them...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26889
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1348 times
Been thanked: 6023 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:30 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
aterford wrote:Have to consider not just the benches, but also the starting XI's...The only reason our bench was made into a big concern is because of the number/quality of injuries we had. None of those benches would look nearly as good if they had half those players forced into the starting XI due to injury, like we did.

Look at it like this - here are the players we currently have out - by minutes/scoring:
Lewandowski - our leading scorer
Goretzka - our #2 starting midfielder, highest-scoring midfielder, and #5 scorer overall
Sule - Our #2/#3 CB, roughly on par with Boateng
Gnabry - #2 starting winger (less total minutes than Sane/Coman, more starts)
Tolisso - #3 midfielder
Costa - #4 winger
Hoffmann - #3 goalkeeper

If we were to apply the same injuries to other teams (again, by minutes/scoring), you'd roughly have the following players out hurt:

Chelsea would be missing Abraham, Kante, Silva, Werner, Jorginho, Ziyech, Caballero
City would be missing Gundogan, Foden, Mahrez, Laporte, Torres, Fernandinho, Carson
Dortmund would be missing Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham, Can, Delaney, Brandt, Unbehaun
Real Madrid would be missing Benzema, Modric, Ramos, Asensio, Valverde, Rodrygo, Altube
Liverpool would be missing Salah, Fabinho, Mane, Phillips, Henderson, Shaqiri, Kelleher
PSG would be missing Mbappe, Herrera, Di Maria, Diallo, Gueye, Draxler, Bulka

Now compare that to their most recent UCL starting XI/bench, fill in the spots, and look at what those benches would look like once you've taken all that into account....it's equally frightening for all of them, pretty much.
Yes. The thing is, we spent all the transfer period saying again and again (as did most pundits) that this season the schedule would be packed and there world be a game every 3 days, and hence heavy metal football was no realistic with a limited bench. It turned out to be true.

Flick did nothing to address this problem. He didn't implement a more cautious energy-efficient variation to our game and he also kept Roca, Musi, Costa, Lucas, Sarr chronically under utilized. Of those, i don't blame him for Costa. The others should have be used more, IF ANYTHING to prevent our starters from being burnout at this stage of the season, as they clearly are.
Sarr? Seriously?
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26889
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1348 times
Been thanked: 6023 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:32 pm

America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.
Erm, did you see fluent attacks yesterday? Did you see effective ones last week? It’s cause somebody sabotaged our play with backheels and misplaced 5m passes... And I am not exaggerating, he tried 8 backheels and at least failed to find Müller -literally being the player next to him- twice in what would have been a great attack...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26889
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1348 times
Been thanked: 6023 times
Gender: Male

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:38 pm

aterford wrote:
America USA wrote:The sporting director/board failed in their transfer business agreed but I don't understand the EMCM hate. It's not fair on Choupo to judge him on RL9s level. EMCM did his job against PSG by scoring two important goals. The eventual elimination was the result of Neuer's mistake and Sané/Coman's wastefulness.


Random fact:

With his goal yesterday, Choupo-Moting scored in both the home and away leg of a UCL KO tie.

Lewandowski has only scored in both the home and away leg of a UCL KO tie just twice in his career. (Chelsea last season, and I believe Arsenal a few years back)

(of course that's not to say Choupo is better than Lewy or whatever, just found it mildly interesting)
How many ties did Lewa poay in where we had a combined 50 shots?
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26889
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1348 times
Been thanked: 6023 times
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to UEFA Champions League

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest