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[2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:00 pm

Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis after 90 minutes
9
39%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis after extra time
1
4%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will go through to the semis on penalties
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis on penalties
1
4%
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis after extra time
3
13%
Bayern Munich will go through to the semis after 90 minutes
9
39%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby CiriacoS » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:19 pm

aterford wrote:
Mani wrote:How much more can we really have depth though? It’s unlucky to have 7 first team players out


Yes. I'll go ahead and say it: We didn't get eliminated because of lack of depth or due to a bad set of summer signings. (Or, at least not the ones who are typically maligned...)

Having Dest instead of Sarr or Pavard wouldn't have changed the outcome.
We didn't lose because we had Costa instead of Perisic.
We didn't lose because Choupo-Moting was our backup CF as opposed to Zirkzee or whatever.

The primary factors in our elimination and/or bad performances this season:

1. Letting Thiago go and failing to adequately replace him (But if we are honest: Every single midfielder we could have purchased would have been a big downgrade, and the one 'replacement' - who would also be a downgrade - never really was given much of a shot, anyways). Thiago was the perfect midfielder to match with the way Flick wants to set up his defense, and there are very few - if any - players available to us who would've fit that role to the degree he did.

2. International break / COVID making players unavailable

3. Lack of defensive organization / continued insistence on starting Alaba in central defense / inflexibility

Ask yourself who we could have reasonably acquired as a backup CF instead of Choupo. Who are they and would they have really changed this tie? Is there some other midfielder who's better than Roca that we could have bought who would have changed things - who is that? Would Dest have changed anything at all? And so on and so forth. Yeah, we botched the summer window, but ultimately that isn't/wasn't a primary factor in why we're out of the UCL now.
It would have changed the outcome massively, if instead of Roca, we had Aouar or Odegaard or de Jong or anyone with the similar level of quality there. Believe me it would have been a massive difference today if we had any one of those instead of Alaba in midfield.

It would have been a massive difference if we had a proper RB today like Cancelo, Lamptey etc.

It would have been a massive difference if instead of Choupo-Moting we had Cavani, Giroud or any other type of solid back-up striker.

So yeah, covid fucked us, but we primarily fucked ourselves up. We lack quality its so obvious.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:20 pm

CiriacoS wrote:Although we are eliminated, I can just say congratulate to this team. Sane was one pass away (to Musiala) to end this tie in our favour but he just didnt have the vision as he didn’t have anything in this tie. And he was brought for such occasions.

Otherwise...just put Perisic, Coutinho, Thiago back in this squad today (or players with similar qualities) and this tie would have been done in Munich. The fact that we had Stanisic on our bench today tells you everything you need to know about this season.

Lucas Hernadez. I dare to say, we have the best CB in the world right now. 80 mio was a bargain deal actually. This guy is crazy good.

We are eliminated because we don’t have a RB, we don’t have a serious Lewa backup and we don’t have Thiago replacement. Its as simple as that. We can only blame ourselves. A pretty miserable situation. All of that because we are cheap.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:21 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
zozon wrote:
aterford wrote:Is there some other midfielder who's better than Roca that we could have bought who would have changed things - who is that?


I'm starting to think that Roca is in the same boat as Lucas. And I bet he can shine when given consistency.

Flick doesnt care about Roca, it wasnt his buy. And I'm tired of this "let him rot on the bench for no reason" attitude, I'm sure Brazzo is also!
He’s probably not as good as him, but he’s definitely not bad enough to never play, he’s probably not worse than Alaba as a midfielder and he did look very promising in Spain.


Yeah, agree on both counts. I'm sure he's a downgrade from Thiago, but like I said, virtually everyone would have been. Thiago was a top-3 midfielder last season, and there's no way we were ever buying a top-3 midfielder to replace him, regardless of who the SD is. I suspect with more chances we'd have not been so disappointed with his transfer.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:31 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Our high press was far from effective, and that is because we didn't have our regular starters and more precisely Goretzka

Alaba can do well in midfield occasionally, but he is not Leon. Even Tolisso would have been a better option, but we had no other solution than Alaba


We did well enough in this tie considering all the circumstances and the quality of the opponent. We were just missing too many players.



Take a look at our bench tonight

Nübel – Martínez, Sarr, Nianzou, Musiala, Stanisic, Zaiser




And now this was our bench in the final last year

Ulreich, Hoffmann, Pavard, Süle, Martínez, Coutinho, Perisic, Tolisso, Cuisance, Lucas Hernández, Zirkzee, Odriozola


:!:



I agree than Sane was disappointing on both legs, but we didn't have any alternative and also he had been playing very well lately. Musiala is still raw for this type of matches and he was invisible.
It's not about the press. I'm pretty sure Flick told them to play at a slower, more cautious pace and control the ball more. We lost this tie in the first game because you simply can't gift 3 goals to QSG at home and expect to go through. Yes, there were other factors, we missed Goretzka, Lewy and Gnabry, but they also missed players. Our bad luck in the first leg was balanced by their in this, cause were much much worse today.

We lost this tie primarily because Flick was too stubborn to play Lucas en CB from the begining.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby #12 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:31 pm

Mani wrote:How much more can we really have depth though? It’s unlucky to have 7 first team players out
Dude... Look at Chelsea for example... We KNEW this was gonna be a tough season... So thank god we signed 4 deadweights in deadline day's dying minutes...
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:31 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Our high press was far from effective, and that is because we didn't have our regular starters and more precisely Goretzka

Alaba can do well in midfield occasionally, but he is not Leon. Even Tolisso would have been a better option, but we had no other solution than Alaba


We did well enough in this tie considering all the circumstances and the quality of the opponent. We were just missing too many players.



Take a look at our bench tonight

Nübel – Martínez, Sarr, Nianzou, Musiala, Stanisic, Zaiser




And now this was our bench in the final last year

Ulreich, Hoffmann, Pavard, Süle, Martínez, Coutinho, Perisic, Tolisso, Cuisance, Lucas Hernández, Zirkzee, Odriozola


:!:



I agree than Sane was disappointing on both legs, but we didn't have any alternative and also he had been playing very well lately. Musiala is still raw for this type of matches and he was invisible.
It's not about the press. I'm pretty sure Flick told them to play at a slower, more cautious pace and control the ball more. We lost this tie in the first game because you simply can't gift 3 goals to QSG at home and expect to go through. Yes, there were other factors, we missed Goretzka, Lewy and Gnabry, but they also missed players. Our bad luck in the first leg was balanced by their in this, cause were much much worse today.

We lost this tie primarily because Flick was too stubborn to play Lucas en CB from the begining. Also because he was too stubborn to realize that extreme high press was untenable with the packed schedule AND with a worse midfielder in Kimmich who is not as press-resistant as Thiago.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:35 pm

I don't think our squad was short.

We simply had too many injuries in the worst possible moment. You can't just have 2 world class players for each position


Even without Lewy we could have beaten them. But we were missing our 3 top goalscorers

Then our midfield was screwed without Goretzka and Tolisso.

And we didn't have fresh legs on the bench for a final push


Last year we had Perisic and Coutinho and this year we had Costa and Sane. So it's not a matter of having more or less players, it's about not having them all injured at the same time !
Last edited by YlonenXabi on Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:35 pm

ramsej84 wrote:HAIL to FCB

Bar Sane.... useless...
I am only disappointed with Davies....


Lucas and Boa were Fantastic ....
All gave their souls....

I sincerely hope that Flick stays... and maybe he convinces Alaba to stay and be part of our mdf rotation....
Boateng fantastic? Mbappe was alone unmarked the whole match where were him and Pavard??? Pathetic defending on the whole right side.

ALABA??? Cant wait to see the back of him.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:41 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I don't think our squad was short.

We simply had too many injuries in the worst possible moment. You can't just have 2 world class players for each position


Even without Lewy we could have beated them. But we were missing our 3 top goalscorers

Then our midfield was screwed without Goretzka and Tolisso.

And we didn't have fresh legs on the bench for a final push


Last year we had Perisic and Coutinho and this year we had Costa and Sane. So it's not a matter of having more or less players, it's about not having them all injured at the same time !

Yes, exactly this.

We complain about our transfers because we let go a number of players who served us very well and we got some who so far have flopped entirely. But we do not have a crystal ball and also we risk overrating players just because they won the CL.

Our transfer window was short-sighted in that we made our moves at the very end and they had no time to integrate (which was already difficult with no pre season). But it wasn't a bad window. It went from a terrible one to a pretty good one at the end.

We saw a big downgrade with Thiago, too big even. But what else? Odriozola was not better than Sarr. Costa should reasonably have been expected to be at least as good as Perisic. Sane, although he's flopped, hasn't been worse than Coutinho was. Choupo-Moting is better than Zirkzee. Nubel is better than Ulreich. Roca is probably better than Cuisance.

We could have had Messi, Zidane, and Beckenbauer and it would have been useless if they were all injured.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:42 pm

We started the game with a very active high pressing trying to win the ball near their box

But it failed miserably without Goretzka


So yeah, that was one of the key reasons
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:43 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Boateng fantastic? Mbappe was alone unmarked the whole match where were him and Pavard??? Pathetic defending on the whole right side.

Boateng made two ugly mistakes that I can recall (in the first half, heading the ball to nowhere instead of to Neuer and giving them a chance that almost resulted in a goal thanks to Kimmich; and in the second half giving them a free corner) but individually he had a good game, in that he seemed to win several challenges (haven't seen stats). The chances they got were more failures of the collective system than individual mistakes, contrary to last week.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:55 pm

CiriacoS wrote:
aterford wrote:
Mani wrote:How much more can we really have depth though? It’s unlucky to have 7 first team players out


Yes. I'll go ahead and say it: We didn't get eliminated because of lack of depth or due to a bad set of summer signings. (Or, at least not the ones who are typically maligned...)

Having Dest instead of Sarr or Pavard wouldn't have changed the outcome.
We didn't lose because we had Costa instead of Perisic.
We didn't lose because Choupo-Moting was our backup CF as opposed to Zirkzee or whatever.

The primary factors in our elimination and/or bad performances this season:

1. Letting Thiago go and failing to adequately replace him (But if we are honest: Every single midfielder we could have purchased would have been a big downgrade, and the one 'replacement' - who would also be a downgrade - never really was given much of a shot, anyways). Thiago was the perfect midfielder to match with the way Flick wants to set up his defense, and there are very few - if any - players available to us who would've fit that role to the degree he did.

2. International break / COVID making players unavailable

3. Lack of defensive organization / continued insistence on starting Alaba in central defense / inflexibility

Ask yourself who we could have reasonably acquired as a backup CF instead of Choupo. Who are they and would they have really changed this tie? Is there some other midfielder who's better than Roca that we could have bought who would have changed things - who is that? Would Dest have changed anything at all? And so on and so forth. Yeah, we botched the summer window, but ultimately that isn't/wasn't a primary factor in why we're out of the UCL now.
It would have changed the outcome massively, if instead of Roca, we had Aouar or Odegaard or de Jong or anyone with the similar level of quality there. Believe me it would have been a massive difference today if we had any one of those instead of Alaba in midfield.

It would have been a massive difference if we had a proper RB today like Cancelo, Lamptey etc.

It would have been a massive difference if instead of Choupo-Moting we had Cavani, Giroud or any other type of solid back-up striker.

So yeah, covid fucked us, but we primarily fucked ourselves up. We lack quality its so obvious.


"Reasonably acquired" is the key here. There was never any chance that we would have ever gotten 99% of those players, regardless of who was in charge.

de Jong just joined Barca the year prior for 90m.
Aouar valued at 50m, no chance. Odegaard 40m rated, and I don't think Madrid would have any interest of selling, esp. not to a direct European rival (and neither are really similar to Thiago, nor are they doing the same things Alaba has been asked to do...)
Cancelo just joined City and is pretty much untouchable now, the only option was maybe a loan for last spring. Lamptey frankly wasn't on anyone's radar until literally the last week of the (late) transfer window and - if you look back at the time - most everyone was saying Brighton's price was too much.
Only perhaps realistic ones there are Cavani and Giroud, but Cavani has a much bigger role at United than Choupo at Bayern (esp. pre-Lewy injury) and Giroud was basically a starter until Tuchel took over.

You see the point, it's as I've said: we could've done better, but most of the players that we could have actually signed last summer probably aren't going to be the game-changers many might have imagined them to be. A window with Sane+(one of Aouar/de Jong/Odegaard)+(one of Cancelo/Lamptey)+(one of Giroud/Cavani)+Nubel, Nianzou, etc was never a possibility for us.
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Larhm » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:05 am

One thing thats frustrating for me is that Coman does the same trick over and over again and he can hardly score or put in a good pass. #-o
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:13 am

Sane is the German Costa
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: [2021-04-13] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Larhm » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:20 am

Sane and Coman bought from a 1 for 1 budget store
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