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[2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:00 pm

Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will win inside 90 minutes
1
3%
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will win after extra time
0
No votes
Paris Saint-Germain F.C. will win on penalties
1
3%
Bayern Munich will win on penalties
0
No votes
Bayern Munich will win after extra time
1
3%
Bayern Munich will win inside 90 minutes
27
90%
 
Total votes : 30

Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:58 am

Dumbledore7 wrote: He misplaced passes because that's what he does when pressed - against Atletico, Porto, Real and others all those years back.


Yes, like any other player. The problem is that it kept happening way too often yesterday. And even when there was no pressing from Lyon. That's something uncharacteristic from Thiago


Dumbledore7 wrote:Goretzka did his job in pressing even though he wasn't that involved in the goals. Could've scored early on if he got that finish right - would you still have called him exhausted then?


Yes, of course. Just like I can tell you Neuer screwed up big time on Depay's clear goal chance even though it didn't go in. And now that you mention it. That was just another sign of exhaustion.



But not the only one. Being late on challenges, misplacing easy passes... when you are tired your brain works slower and those extra tenths of a second can make the difference between a good or bad pass or between a good tackle and a foul


And the fact that both Thiago and Goretzka were subbed at the very same time without being on a yellow clearly indicates something. It's not very common to see both of your CMs being replaced at the same time
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:09 am

Ed. wrote:About this high line, is it even working?

Isn't one of the points of the high line to catch the attackers off side every now and then?
I can't recall that happening even once vs Lyon. Every through ball or long ball seem to find an attacker onside and our defence then trying to catch up.

Can't have the same nonsense against Mbappe.



It made a lot of sense vs Barça and I thought it was a great move by Flick back then. First because a high defensive line allows you to press high more efficiently as you have more numbers in the attacking half and second because by doing that he kept Suarez and Messi far from goal and because they aren't that fast anymore they could not take advantage of all that space.

Yes we were vulnerable whenever Alba or Semedo ran forward, but every tactic has its strengths and weaknesses and I think our tactics were spot on that day.


But I didn't like that we played the very same tactics yesterday. And PSG will be a different story. Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria cannot be given all that space or they will make us pay for it.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:10 am

PSG have equaled Real Madrid's record from 2011-14 of scoring in 34 consecutive Champions League matches. With a goal in this match they would set a new record.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:35 am

MUTU wrote:PSG have equaled Real Madrid's record from 2011-14 of scoring in 34 consecutive Champions League matches. With a goal in this match they would set a new record.

Meanwhile:
- Bayern have equalled the record of most consecutive wins. If we win this, we would set a new record.
- If we win, we will be the highest scoring champion ever, despite having played fewer games than usual.
- If we score 3 goals, we will equal the highest scoring side ever, despite having played 5 fewer games than the record holders.
- If Lewandowski scores 2 goals, he will equal the top scorer in a single season ever, despite having played fewer games than the record holder.
- Can't find defensive records, but I would assume, given our lack of losses and fewer games, that we are also in the running.

Of course none of this matters. Only one thing matters and that is winning the game and bringing home a record second treble. However, all these possible records and probably more say a lot about this Bayern side and give me some confidence. I too feel that, logically and on paper, the 2013 is better. Yet objectively, this team has achieved much more than anyone else ever has. One more win and in my books they are the best of all time.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:00 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I too feel that, logically and on paper, the 2013 is better. Yet objectively, this team has achieved much more than anyone else ever has. One more win and in my books they are the best of all time.

There is a very scientific way of gauging which was the most dominant era / vein of form, using Elo rankings, and not only is 2013's squad notably ahead, but today's Bayern have a virtually-identical Elo ranking as the Barcelona squad that lost 7-0 to 2013's Bayern.

Bayern's peak is actually recorded to be in 2014 (2104), and is the 2nd highest peak by a club ever, narrowly pipped by 2012 Barcelona (2108).

Bayern are currently at 2029.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:10 am

Interesting. I’m not sure how it works but I tend to agree the 2013 team was better. This Bayern seem more clinical and ruthless, but the football isn’t at the same level.

Perhaps a fairer way to put it is this team is the biggest goal machine ever.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Achilles » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:23 am

My approach would be the gun'n'run tactics with full gegenpressing we used against Barca in 2013.
Most dominant performance considering the opponent and the stage from Bayern of the decade.

That recipe granted that you have the right players(which we do) is unbeatable against ball possession teams like PSG who rely too much on individual quality. We need a deeper approach than yesterday. Pavard RB and Kimmich on the midfield. Muller-Gnabry wingers.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:25 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Interesting. I’m not sure how it works but I tend to agree the 2013 team was better. This Bayern seem more clinical and ruthless, but the football isn’t at the same level.

Perhaps a fairer way to put it is this team is the biggest goal machine ever.

Elo can't tell you which team was better*, but it can tell you which team was more dominant over its rivals.

*no ranking system can. Imagine a hypothetical virus spreads around and kills every single professional footballer in the world, just pro footballers only. The teams would have to start from scratch with amateurs and youth players. Matches would be played and one team would be the most dominant team at the end of the season, and maybe be the most dominant team ever in respect to the teams they played, but they still would definitely not be the best team ever. No ranking system can compare the actual strength of two teams from different times or predict who would win in a hypothetical scenario of having a time machine and getting to play each other. The ranking systems can only tell you how well they were with respect to the other teams at the time.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:38 am

YlonenXabi wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote: He misplaced passes because that's what he does when pressed - against Atletico, Porto, Real and others all those years back.


Yes, like any other player. The problem is that it kept happening way too often yesterday. And even when there was no pressing from Lyon. That's something uncharacteristic from Thiago


No, not like any other player, it's his weakness and you'd have to be in denial to not recognise it. We've lost Champions League games because of it. Kroos doesn't make those mistakes.

YlonenXabi wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Goretzka did his job in pressing even though he wasn't that involved in the goals. Could've scored early on if he got that finish right - would you still have called him exhausted then?


Yes, of course. Just like I can tell you Neuer screwed up big time on Depay's clear goal chance even though it didn't go in. And now that you mention it. That was just another sign of exhaustion.


Neuer screwed up? He closed Depay down very quickly and pressured his striker. World class goalkeeping. The pundits commended it. What, don't tell me you think De Gea's a good player because he makes saves?


The final won't be decided by fitness, it'll be decided by tactics.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby cuil » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:38 am

Ed. wrote:About this high line, is it even working?

Isn't one of the points of the high line to catch the attackers off side every now and then?
I can't recall that happening even once vs Lyon. Every through ball or long ball seem to find an attacker onside and our defence then trying to catch up.

Can't have the same nonsense against Mbappe.


It should be obvious by now because of Pep and Flick, that the point of our high line isn't the offside. It's to put more men forward in attack and to serve the counter pressing. By now people should accept that Bayern has deliberately sacrificed defensive stability for creating a gazillion scoring chances. The Barca game is epitome of this: you can score goals but it will hardly matter because we will score more.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Achilles » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:39 am

With all due respect, even if this Bayern wins PSG 5-0 in the final I wouldn't say they top the 2013 team. This team has holes, the treble squad was dominant from defense to midfield and offense. The wings worked like an automated system, like the best engineer put his best work there. Ribery-Alaba & Robben-Lahm worked like ONE that season, I have never ever seen that before, the level of chemistry and punch in the flanks was/is unparalleled to this day.

The midfield duo of Schweini-Martinez was so consistent and dominant that made you feel as a fan "whatever they have, they can't pass by" not because of technicality but their tactical awareness, area control of Schweinsteiger with the super form of Martinez harassing every opponent... they looked like bullies, I caught my self wondering how the hell some teams can't past by Schweini, he was always there in the right spot intercepting or blocking the way with his presence and then Martinez comes in to finish the play or steal the ball. This team is more technically gifted and presses well and full of energy, the 2013 midfield were far more experienced and OGs.

Apart from Lewandowski-Mandzukic you can't change anything else. Prime Neuer,Muller,Boateng. The Thiago entering the combined XI of 2013-2020 is a joke from people with a bad taste in humor.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:40 am

Perisic on his day is as close to Ribery as you can hope to get. His defensive work rate was crucial against Barca and Lyon, and it will be needed against PSG especially if you're worried about high lines. Has to start.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:40 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:He closed Depay down very quickly and pressured his striker.

I thought he looked a far cry from his prime speed in that action to be honest. Neuer used to be one of the fastest players in our squad.
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:42 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:Perisic on his day is as close to Ribery as you can hope to get.

This is a joke, right? You meant to post this in the fun thread? :oops:
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Re: [2020-08-23] PSG vs Bayern Munich

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:45 am

MUTU wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:He closed Depay down very quickly and pressured his striker.

I thought he looked a far cry from his prime speed in that action to be honest. Neuer used to be one of the fastest players in our squad.

Yes, but too bad. It's the best he could've done and exactly what I had hoped he would do. There was a chance later on when he came out and stopped - that one was a mistake. The Depay chance wasn't.
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