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[2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Discussions on the UEFA Champions League matches.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:00 pm

FC Barcelona will win
1
8%
It will end in a draw
1
8%
Bayern Munich will win
10
83%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:06 pm

Ottomeister87 wrote:I even imagine them becoming 4th fiddle in the league behind Atletico, Real and Villareal/Sevilla.

Yup. It will be a very, very long time until Barca is a top club again.

They put themselves on the map by signing one of the best players of all time, Ronaldinho. Then, unbelievably, something amazing happened: they happened to find, around the same time, another one of the best players of all time. Surely everyone can see how rare that is? And to top it all they also found the likes of Iniesta and Xavi. Things like that happen maybe once every 50 years.

After all of those but Messi left they were able to prolong their status as a top club with insane and unsustainable transfers. Now they've lost it all. They have no money and no best player in the world. The chances of them producing a couple of comparable players again are extremely slim, and they don't have the money to bring in that sort of talent anymore. It's over.
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby aterford » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:53 pm

MUTU wrote:
aterford wrote:That's the thing...we've been hearing this "Barca would be better off without Messi anyways" for a while now but like...does anybody actually believe that? I mean, would anyone argue that Barca would've fared better in the 8-2 *without* Messi there?


Absolutely. There is no way we'd have won by that margin if there wasn't the bad teamwork in their squad specifically because of Messi as well as his demoralising presence in the dressing room at half time.

To be fair that result is such a freak result that if you get a time machine and change even one small seemingly-meaningless factor, Bayern wouldn't win 8-2, let alone something as dramatic as Messi.

Perhaps the best comparison was in 2013 when Messi played only the first leg. We won that one 4-0. When he didn't play we won 3-0 instead.

It does not matter how great the player is individually, even if you regard Messi as the GOAT (many do), it's still entirely possible that adding him to your team has a negative effect. Football is a team sport and I don't like to look only at what the player does with the ball at his feet but also the defensive contribution which in Messi's case is non existent to the point where he walks around conserving energy for when his teammates recover the ball and feed it to him.


I'm quite confident if you take Messi out of that team and replace him with an "average" or "replacement level" player they don't do any better. I just can't seriously entertain the notion that Barca's odds for facing us tomorrow would be any worse than they presently are if Messi were still here; They'd almost certainly improve their standing.
The "problem" that Barca have with Messi isn't that he has some sort of negative impact or that he doesn't contribute enough on defense (this is the case with many, many, MANY top players who have won everything there is to win) but rather that they were (are?) horribly mismanaged and completely ill-equipped for life after Messi. It's one thing to build your team around a particular player; it's another thing to make one player your team and be left with nothing when that player is removed.

Like I said before: maybe if he had left a few years ago this would be the case, but I don't think any team can really make that degree of adjustment on such a short-term. The situation they find themselves in right now...It'd be like if you had an airplane and threw out the pilot because you believed he wasn't going to be the best thing for your other passengers or because you thought he wasn't flying the plane as efficiently as it could be flown. And you might be right! But now you've got no pilot and you'd better hope one of the other random passengers on the plane knows enough to be able to take the controls and keep you in the air.
You can't just take an airplane (Barcelona's current team) and throw out the pilot (Messi) and expect to have a better flight (performance) with a group of the passengers (Other non-Messi Barca players) coming together to try and figure out the controls.

I'm not sure that the 2013 tie really tells us much either. First we should remember that Messi had been carrying a hamstring injury since the first half of the first PSG tie and was widely thought to not be at 100%. But I think beyond that (and probably the single biggest factor) is just that the dynamics of the two ties were completely different. When you have a 4-0 lead going into the second leg you already know that your opponent has a mountain to climb, and just after HT it was 5:0 (agg) with 1 away goal, meaning Barca would've needed six in a half. We had no reason to pursue the match with the same intensity at that point. And I mean...nobody came away from that match thinking Barca looked like an improved side or like they were better off with Messi out hurt. No, pretty much everyone understood that tie was all but dead in the first leg and it's not because Messi was out that they did "better" in the second. If we'd decided to approach that match with the same full intensity that we had in the first leg then I have no doubt whatsoever we'd have at least met the same 4-0 mark, if not better. I don't think you can really draw any meaningful conclusions whatsoever about Messi's impact on the team based on those two matches.
God Bless Thomas Müller
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:30 am

Just because we are much better doesn't mean that we will win 4-0. We are also much better than Gladbach and the final score was 2-2
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby CiriacoS » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 am

Messi is one of a kind. Ronaldinho is a legend. But Messi is from another world. So in that respect I agree, that is something that wont repeat. Messi just cant be replaced. Ever.

Nevertheless, I would not focus too much on them. Our focus is on our goals. We have to focus on improving our game, on being even better. Its beginning of season. So no excuses about fatigue and tiredness. This is an important match for the first place in the group. So we have to be completely focused. The 8-2 game means nothing tomorrow. At least not for us. This is Nagelsmann’s Bayern and new era shall begin.
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:32 am

YlonenXabi wrote:Just because we are much better doesn't mean that we will win 4-0. We are also much better than Gladbach and the final score was 2-2
Of course, as someone said for a big win you need two sides.

I predict a big win but as I said I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not. I’d be disappointed if we don’t win though - like against Gladbach.
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:43 am

Image
---------------Lewandowski
------------Sané - Müller - Gnabry
------------Goretzka - Kimmich
Davies - Hernández - Upamecano - Süle
--------------------Neuer
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby Goalooin » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:20 am

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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby DRvad14 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:36 am

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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:21 pm

Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby Hardrade » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:46 pm

I am 100% certain that FCB will win this match.
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[2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:55 pm

Hardrade wrote:I am 100% certain that FCB will win this match.


Draw incoming!
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister87 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Just because we are much better doesn't mean that we will win 4-0. We are also much better than Gladbach and the final score was 2-2


It actually ended in 1-1 :P

Anyway, those dutch high horsed assholes really need to fall flat on their fucking face. Always acting as if they are the football guru's and what does Koeman do? Run as soon as things get some sort of roll, just to jump on the next job like he did with the Dutch National team to Barca. Idiot. Your club has no future, your president was looking for a different coach behind your back and you dumbass still stayed where you arent even supported by the fans.
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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:29 pm

Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:50 pm

Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

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Re: [2021-09-14] FC Barcelona vs Bayern Munich

Postby zozon » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:51 pm

Nagelsmann masterclass.
Flick would have never started Musiala, sorry.
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